The LBJ-CIA Assassination of JFK

[EventHorizon]

I am age 47.

Holy jeez, that's embarrassing. You'd think that in 47 years of life you'd have been able to figure it out. I was in the rabbit hole for about 8 years or so before I clawed myself out.

 

[timhau]

BTW, of those four years you spent intensively studying the JFK assassination, how many of them were spent on YouTube?

 

[BStrong]

BStrong - that is a different "Robert Morrow." The author of First Hand Knowledge was a CIA guy and he died in 1998 or 1999. I am age 47.

I read his book Betrayal.

Pure *********.

His later books are more of the same.

 

[jargon buster]

If you want to get quickly “up to speed” on the JFK assassination, here is what to read:

Regardless of who killed Kennedy it is to long past to do anything about it.
"The CIA did it", so what, if they did they had their reasons.
Shall we re-open the files on the stabbing of Caesar?

 

[SpitfireIX]

Shall we re-open the files on the stabbing of Caesar?

It's been done.

 

[Robert Morrow]

Calebprime, I posted my entire essay, but then the moderator truncated it and posted my blog link on the JFK assassation. If you would like to read it, go to "lyndonjohnsonmurderedjfk (dot) blogspot (dot) com. Then look on the right hand side and scroll down to the "LBJ-CIA Assassination of JFK." This is the latest version of my overview of the JFK assassination. I am constantly adding to/tweaking this essay and it has appeared in various forms over the internet. This is my most updated version.

 

[Robert Morrow]

The KGB had concluded by Sept., 1965, that Lyndon Johnson had orchestrated the JFK assassination.

Google "JFK assassination Records Review Board Releases Top Secret Records" and read document #1.

It is a memo from Hoover to LBJ on 12/1/66 stating that the KGB had concluded by September, 1965, that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination.

...

Document 1

December 1, 1966


REACTION OF SOVIET AND COMMUNIST PARTY OFFICIALS TO THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY


A source who has furnished reliable information in the past and who was in Russia on the date of the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy advised on December 4, 1963, that the news of the assassination of President Kennedy was flashed to the Soviet people almost immediately after its occurrence. It was greeted by great shock and consternation and church bells were tolled in the memory of President Kennedy.

...

http://www.indiana.edu/~oah/nl/98feb/jfk.html#d1

Snipped for compliance with Rule 4. Please do not copy and paste lengthy tracts of text available elsewhere. Instead, quote a short passage and cite a link to the source. Thanks in advance for your anticipated cooperation.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL

 

[BStrong]

It's pretty bad when a newcomer signs up to pimp their website, but even worse when said website is the same old tired CT crap.

 

[calebprime]

Calebprime, I posted my entire essay, but then the moderator truncated it...

No, I was suggesting the opposite. Instead of posting an entire essay, try to discuss your strongest points.

There are a number of people here who will engage with you if you do it that way.

Your previous long post will be truncated, with a link, as well, because it also occurs on Amazon.com.

This site is for discussion, not posting wall o' texts.

 

[SpitfireIX]

The KGB had concluded by Sept., 1965, that Lyndon Johnson had orchestrated the JFK assassination.

No, they hadn't.

It is a memo from Hoover to LBJ on 12/1/66 stating that the KGB had concluded by September, 1965, that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination.

It doesn't say that.

This is one of the jewels produced by the ARRB: a memo from J. Edgar Hoover dated 12/1/66 (and sent to LBJ on that day) which stated that as of September, 1965 the Soviets were telling their KGB agents in America that they had concluded that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination.

Ditto.

Also, go to page 1,492-1,496 of Doug Horne's Volume V of his book "Inside the Assassinations Record Review Board." The leader of the FBI records team Phil Golrick told author Doug Horne that "the specific language in the FBI report indicates that the information was obtained through electronic surveillance, not human intelligence, and it should be considered a very reliable record of what the KGB had been telling its own people behind closed doors in its own Residency in New York City." (Horne, p. 1493, Volume 5, Inside the ARRB).

I consider this to be of GARGANTUAN significance in understanding the JFK assassination. It is up there with Gen. Ed Lansdale being photographed at TSBD. Up there with Antonio Veciana identifying "Maurice Bishop" aka David Atlee Phillips with Oswald.

Here is the photo allegedly of Lansdale's back. Prove it's actually him, and not a figment of Fletcher Prouty's fevered imagination.

And from the HSCA's report, pp. 136-137:

The committee was left with the task of evaluating Veciana's story, both with respect to the existence of Maurice Bishop and the alleged meeting with Oswald, by assessing Veciana's credibility. It found several reasons to believe that Veciana had been less than candid:

• First, Veciana waited more than 10 years after the assassination to reveal his story.
• Second, Veciana would not supply proof of the $253,000 payment from Bishop, claiming fear of the Internal Revenue Service.
• Third, Veciana could not point to a single witness to his meetings with Bishop, much less with Oswald.
• Fourth, Veciana did little to help the committee identify Bishop.

In the absence of corroboration or independent substantiation, the committee could not, therefore, credit Veciana's story of having met with Lee Harvey Oswald.[bolding mine]

Fail.

This is extremely important because it is coming from Soviet internal intelligence, not their propaganda organs (who were accusing the Texas oil men closely associated with LBJ). FBI counter-intelligence discovered in the mid 1960's that the Soviets believed internally that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination. The Russians at that time had the largest foreign intelligence agency in the world. They were quite competent, too, having stolen our complete atomic bomb secrets in the early mid 1940's.

Again, the memo does not say any such thing. Further, it wasn't overly difficlult for the Soviets to obtain data on the Manhattan Project when some of the people working on it were Communists.

<snip>

On September 16, 1965, this same source reported that the KGB Residency in New York City received instructions approximately September 16, 1965, from KGB headquarters in Moscow to develop all possible information concerning President Lyndon B. Johnson's character, background, personal friends, family, and from which quarters he derives his support in his position as President of the United States. Our source added that in the instructions from Moscow, it was indicated that "now" the KGB was in possession of data purporting to indicate President Johnson was responsible for the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy. KGB headquarters indicated that in view of this information, it was necessary for the Soviet Government to know the existing personal relationship between President Johnson and the Kennedy family, particularly between President Johnson and Robert and "Ted" Kennedy.

<snip>

[bolding mine]

You need to look up the meaning of the word "purport."

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

The KGB had concluded by Sept., 1965, that Lyndon Johnson had orchestrated the JFK assassination.

I'm shocked, SHOCKED... that after a known communist had murdered the President of the United States that the KGB would sloppily and ham-fistedly try to point fingers elsewhere.

 

[Robert Morrow]

Spitfire, I think is pretty clear that the KGB by Sept, 1965 had come into possession of material that had convinced the then world's largest foreign intelligence service that Lyndon Johnson had orchestrated the JFK assassination. The Russians certainly had a keen interest in determining who *really* killed JFK because they were in danger of being framed for it. The best scholarship considers Oswald to be fake defector, a US intelligence agent. But in 1963 Oswald had the public persona of a pro-Castro Marxist, which made him easy to posthumously frame for the JFK assassination.

Here is Hoover's key paragraph:

"On September 16, 1965, this same source reported that the KGB Residency in New York City received instructions approximately September 16, 1965, from KGB headquarters in Moscow to develop all possible information concerning President Lyndon B. Johnson's character, background, personal friends, family, and from which quarters he derives his support in his position as President of the United States. Our source added that in the instructions from Moscow, it was indicated that "now" the KGB was in possession of data purporting to indicate President Johnson was responsible for the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy. KGB headquarters indicated that in view of this information, it was necessary for the Soviet Government to know the existing personal relationship between President Johnson and the Kennedy family, particularly between President Johnson and Robert and "Ted" Kennedy."

And this is worth repeating as well:

The leader of the FBI records team Phil Golrick told author Doug Horne that "the specific language in the FBI report indicates that the information was obtained through electronic surveillance, not human intelligence, and it should be considered a very reliable record of what the KGB had been telling its own people behind closed doors in its own Residency in New York City." (Horne, p. 1493, Volume 5, Inside the ARRB).

So this is what had really concluded about the JFK assassination for their own private uses. Interestly, the Russian press has been saying for 48 years that Texas oil men, Lyndon Johnson's biggest supporters, were behind the JFK assassination.

This is confirmed by what Lyndon Johnson told his mistress Madeleine Brown on 12/31/63 as well as by the accounts of Barr McClellan who worked closely with LBJ's intimate and close friend Ed Clark, who was his point of contact with the Texas oil men, particularly Clint Murchison.

 

[Robert Morrow]

Pravda in 2007 was fingering H.L. Hunt for the JFK assassination

Google "Education Forum Pravda H.L. Hunt" for the web link

After 4 years of research into the JFK assassination, I agree with Pravda. Here is Pravda in 2007:

"Many experts on America believe that the conspiracy in Dallas was organized by a group of billionaires from Texas with Harold Hunt at head. The man was considered the world’s richest man of that time. The Texas businessman took an active part in the political life of America; he nominated Texas senator Lyndon Johnson for presidential election in 1960. The first attempt to promote Johnson was a failure, but Hunt finished the game in Dallas as a result of which Kennedy was killed and his candidate came to the White House."

In 1963-64, the controlled Soviet press was saying "Texas oil barons played a fatal role" in the JFK assassination.

 

[Robert Morrow]

Spitfire, it was not just Col. Fletcher Prouty who identified Ed Lansdale at TSBD; it was also Gen. Victor Krulak who also worked closely with Lansdale. I do think CIA and Air Force general Ed Lansdale was in Dallas to supervise the JFK assassination.

Google: "Krulak Letter Re: Dealey Plaza Photos And Lansdale Identity"

15 March 1985

Mr. Fletcher Prouty
Alexandria, Virginia

Dear Fletch:

As I read your interesting letter it is plain that you have not wanted for interest or achievement in your life. It has to have been exciting and rewarding too.

Mine has been a lively existence too. I had much to do with Vietnam from '64 to '68, and was loudly disenchanted with what went on and how. I recorded it as part of my book First to Fight that came out a few months ago.

I've also spent ten years in the newspaper business (a most useful education) and now write a syndicated weekly column. I wrote another book, Organization for National Security that resulted in my testifying before a Senate committee.

All taken together, a stirring life.

As to your chronicle concerning the JFK assassination period, I remember your going to Antarctica. I was in the Pentagon at the time of the tragedy but have no recollection of where Lansdale was.

The pictures.-- The two policemen are carrying shotguns, not rifles. Their caps are different (one a white chinstrap, one black). One has a Dallas police shoulder patch, one does not and their caps differ from that of another police officer in photo 4. Reasonable conclusion -- they are either reservists or phonys. And, as you know, city cops don't have anything to do with Sheriff's offices.

As to photo no. 1. That is indeed a picture of Ed Lansdale. The haircut, the stoop, the twisted left hand, the large class ring. It's Lansdale. What in the world was he doing there? Has anyone ever asked him and who was the photographer? Why did he take the pictures? What did he do with them?

I have examined my own records and find no clue that would help. Suffice to say, it is a fascinating proposition.

I am returning your pictures.

Best regards always.

Sincerely,

[signed, Brute Krulak]

 

[timhau]

I ask again: how much of your 4 years of JFK assassination studies was spent googling and watching YouTube?

 

[SpitfireIX]

Spitfire, I think is pretty clear that the KGB by Sept, 1965 had come into possession of material that had convinced the then world's largest foreign intelligence service that Lyndon Johnson had orchestrated the JFK assassination. The Russians certainly had a keen interest in determining who *really* killed JFK because they were in danger of being framed for it. The best scholarship considers Oswald to be fake defector, a US intelligence agent. But in 1963 Oswald had the public persona of a pro-Castro Marxist, which made him easy to posthumously frame for the JFK assassination.

No. What is "pretty clear" is that you are desperate to latch on to any information that appears to confirm your belief in an LBJ/CIA conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy, and to reject any information that tends to disconfirm it.

Here is Hoover's key paragraph:

"On September 16, 1965, this same source reported that the KGB Residency in New York City received instructions approximately September 16, 1965, from KGB headquarters in Moscow to develop all possible information concerning President Lyndon B. Johnson's character, background, personal friends, family, and from which quarters he derives his support in his position as President of the United States. Our source added that in the instructions from Moscow, it was indicated that "now" the KGB was in possession of data purporting to indicate President Johnson was responsible for the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy. KGB headquarters indicated that in view of this information, it was necessary for the Soviet Government to know the existing personal relationship between President Johnson and the Kennedy family, particularly between President Johnson and Robert and "Ted" Kennedy."

I read the paragraph, quoted it in my response to your post, and bolded the key word, "purported," which you are ignoring. Your reposting the paragraph doesn't magically make it mean what you wish it to mean.

The definition of "purport" from dictionary.com: "to present, especially deliberately, the appearance of being; profess or claim, often falsely [bolding mine]". There is no indication whatsoever that the Soviets accepted the information at face value; in fact the opposite is implied. And even if they did believe it, that would in no way constitute any kind of proof. Recent history is replete with instances of intelligence organizations', including the KGB's, having drawing incorrect conclusions. Google "KGB and 'intelligence failure'" and you'll find several examples.

And this is worth repeating as well:

<snip>

Irrelevant. The accuracy of the FBI's report of what the Soviets were saying is not in question. Your interpretation of what the Soviets were saying is in question.

So this is what had really concluded about the JFK assassination for their own private uses.

No. See above.

Interestly, the Russian press has been saying for 48 years that Texas oil men, Lyndon Johnson's biggest supporters, were behind the JFK assassination.

And the Cubans have been saying for over 40 years that the moon landings were faked. What does that prove?

This is confirmed by what Lyndon Johnson told his mistress Madeleine Brown on 12/31/63 . . .

There is no evidence that Brown had an affair with LBJ, or that he ever told her any of the things she claimed, other than her own word. She had a clear financial interest in telling the most sensational and salacious tale she could, in order to increase sales of her book. See here for a thorough debunking of her claims.

. . . as well as by the accounts of Barr McClellan who worked closely with LBJ's intimate and close friend Ed Clark, who was his point of contact with the Texas oil men, particularly Clint Murchison.

From Wikipedia's article on Barr McClellan^WP:

After McClellan made his allegations on the History Channel on November 18, 2003 (in "The Guilty Men," part 9 of "The Men Who Killed Kennedy"), former presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter protested, and former LBJ staffers Bill Moyers and Jack Valenti asked the History Channel to investigate the charges. On April 2, 2004, after having three historians examine the charges, the History Channel issued a press release stating that the claim of LBJ's complicity "is entirely unfounded and does not hold up to scrutiny. ... [the show] fell short of the high standards that the network sets for itself. The History Channel apologizes to its viewers and to Mrs. [Lady Bird] Johnson and her family for airing the show."[note omitted]

The source of the above is Bugliosi, p. 925.

 

[Walter Ego]

Go to this thread. This should be merged with that thread.

Agreed. Robert Morrow is not proposing anything that Robert Prey has not claimed on that thread. Prey also believes that LBJ was the perp.

 

[SpitfireIX]

Spitfire, it was not just Col. Fletcher Prouty who identified Ed Lansdale at TSBD; it was also Gen. Victor Krulak who also worked closely with Lansdale. I do think CIA and Air Force general Ed Lansdale was in Dallas to supervise the JFK assassination.

My point wasn't that the man doesn't resemble Lansdale from behind. My point was that the resemblance proves absolutely nothing. Other conspiracy theorists have claimed that photos taken around the time of the assassination show E. Howard Hunt, Joseph Milteer, and even Lee Harvey Oswald. Those photos were all taken from the front, and the claims have all been proven to be cases of mistaken identity.

Further, attention is directed to this Wikipedia talk page where you had your head handed to you on the issue of Lansdale's allegedly being in the photo.

 

[bynmdsue]

That History Channel press release is pretty funny considering their current programming line-up.

 

[Noztradamus]

Originally Posted by LSSBB
Go to this thread. This should be merged with that thread.

Agreed. Robert Morrow is not proposing anything that Robert Prey has not claimed on that thread. Prey also believes that LBJ was the perp.

NO! Can you imagine the confusion. One of them will make a claim, be asked in a friendly manner to justify it. Then both of them will respond, either both arguing they never made the claim, or both supporting it, on different and probably contradictary grounds.

Better to keep them isolated.