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JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

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jargon buster said:
Well you did say "make sure" before and now you want to say "substantially increase" your chances.

Wouldnt the "professional way" be to just kill him at home with a pillow over his head?
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Was Caesar murdered with a pillow? How about Abe Lincoln? Or McKinley? Or Garfield? Or the attempt on TR? No, I don't think pillows are very professional.
 
LSSBB said:
Not obviously. They are limited by time, money, and technological capability, like everyone else. Appeals to magic do not fly in critical discourse.

ETA: here is a great example of your "unlimited" CIA, circa the early 60s: The Bay of Pigs
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A ridiculous example. The CIA and Cuban Patriots were betrayed on the promise of Air Cover by JFK And that's why he was assassinated.
 
Another Hypothetical which will be ignored

Why would Lee Harvey Oswald, a man alleged to be a crazy, Marxist Communist, disloyal American looking to make a name for himself by shooting a President, make sure he left a paper trail on his purchase of a rifle, instead of going over the counter locally, with no paper trail??? Or did he perhaps want to be caught so that he would go down in history as a big man who killed the President???? Oh, and the purchase made with a fake ID which he conveniently left in his wallet so that when he was picked up, they would know it was he who purchased the rifle, and he would get "credit" for the Crime of the Century. Make sense??? To Lone Nutters, hell yes. But then Lone Nutters really are kind of nuts.
 
Robert Prey said:
Why would Lee Harvey Oswald, a man alleged to be a crazy, Marxist Communist, disloyal American looking to make a name for himself by shooting a President, make sure he left a paper trail on his purchase of a rifle, instead of going over the counter locally, with no paper trail??? Or did he perhaps want to be caught so that he would go down in history as a big man who killed the President???? Oh, and the purchase made with a fake ID which he conveniently left in his wallet so that when he was picked up, they would know it was he who purchased the rifle, and he would get "credit" for the Crime of the Century. Make sense??? To Lone Nutters, hell yes. But then Lone Nutters really are kind of nuts.
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We're nuts yet you find this even remotely plausible:

Instead, you claim the conspirators did all this:
1. Shoot him from a different direction (the grassy knoll).
2. Make sure the autopsists lie about the bullet directions.
3. Alter the films and photos taken at the scene.
4. Plant a rifle and shells to frame the patsy.
5. Fake a photo showing the suspect with the rifle.
6. Alter the autopsy x-rays.
7. Alter the autopsy photos.
8. Alter the body.
9. Make sure the FBI lies in documents about what the witnesses said.
10. Start intimidating witnesses to lie, or kill them if necessary.
11. Etc., etc., ad nauseum
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Yeah, we're the crazy ones. :rolleyes:
 
Robert Prey said:
Why would Lee Harvey Oswald, a man alleged to be a crazy, Marxist Communist, disloyal American looking to make a name for himself by shooting a President, make sure he left a paper trail on his purchase of a rifle, instead of going over the counter locally, with no paper trail??? Or did he perhaps want to be caught so that he would go down in history as a big man who killed the President???? Oh, and the purchase made with a fake ID which he conveniently left in his wallet so that when he was picked up, they would know it was he who purchased the rifle, and he would get "credit" for the Crime of the Century. Make sense??? To Lone Nutters, hell yes. But then Lone Nutters really are kind of nuts.
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Why would John Wilkes Booth jump from the balcony risking certain injury and capture? Because he wasn't thinking.....

IMO, all of the above things are part of the evidence proving that LHO was unstable and had focused his lack of personal stability onto JFK.

You entire basis for your argument seems to be around that LHO said he was a Patsy and the silly fake after the fact, drawings of JFK's head wound. Yet you disregard the actual evidence to the contrary.

You know, Ted Bundy said he was innocent too..... and there were some discrepancies with what the evidence was and what he claimed he had done after he started confessing hoping to save his own behind... Does that mean there was a conspiracy to kill a bunch of college girls?
 
Robert Prey said:
Why would Lee Harvey Oswald, a man alleged to be a crazy, Marxist Communist, disloyal American looking to make a name for himself by shooting a President, make sure he left a paper trail on his purchase of a rifle, instead of going over the counter locally, with no paper trail??? Or did he perhaps want to be caught so that he would go down in history as a big man who killed the President???? Oh, and the purchase made with a fake ID which he conveniently left in his wallet so that when he was picked up, they would know it was he who purchased the rifle, and he would get "credit" for the Crime of the Century. Make sense??? To Lone Nutters, hell yes. But then Lone Nutters really are kind of nuts.
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You can't argue with success. Obviously.

Unless you're a Conspiracy Loon.
 
I also like how Robert confirmed his adherence to this goofy CT is based around a personal feeling of power and being "in the know" as he claimed that "Lone Nutters really are kinda nuts" .

i don't know what the numbers are for what % of the nation thinks LHO acted alone, but something tells me that they aren't nuts.
 
Robert Prey said:
Why would Lee Harvey Oswald, a man alleged to be a crazy, Marxist Communist, disloyal American looking to make a name for himself by shooting a President, make sure he left a paper trail on his purchase of a rifle, instead of going over the counter locally, with no paper trail??? Or did he perhaps want to be caught so that he would go down in history as a big man who killed the President???? Oh, and the purchase made with a fake ID which he conveniently left in his wallet so that when he was picked up, they would know it was he who purchased the rifle, and he would get "credit" for the Crime of the Century. Make sense??? To Lone Nutters, hell yes. But then Lone Nutters really are kind of nuts.
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One question at a time please.

So what your questions boil down to is:

Why did a man alleged to be irrational behave irrationally?

Yeah, that's a regular riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma you got there.
 
Robert Prey said:
It was not a Rube Goldberg plan. It was a plan practiced and perfected in anticipation of assassinating Castro. A plan devised and executed by professionals.
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Are you serious?

How'd those perfect plans to assassinate Castro work out? The ones devised and executed by professionals?

Last I looked, he's still alive.

One of those professional plans -- an exploding cigar.

Hank
 
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Robert Prey said:
Why would Lee Harvey Oswald, a man alleged to be a crazy, Marxist Communist, disloyal American looking to make a name for himself by shooting a President, make sure he left a paper trail on his purchase of a rifle, instead of going over the counter locally, with no paper trail??? Or did he perhaps want to be caught so that he would go down in history as a big man who killed the President???? Oh, and the purchase made with a fake ID which he conveniently left in his wallet so that when he was picked up, they would know it was he who purchased the rifle, and he would get "credit" for the Crime of the Century. Make sense??? To Lone Nutters, hell yes. But then Lone Nutters really are kind of nuts.
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Hi Robert,

Please advise the date Oswald ordered the rifle. Do you know?
Now advise the date the trip to Dallas was confirmed. Do you know?

You are conflating the facts to make it seem like Oswald ordered the rifle to shoot JFK. But at the time Oswald ordered the rifle, there were no plans for JFK to go to Dallas. The evidence indicates Oswald ordered the rifle to shoot General Walker, an attempt he carried out in April of 1963.


Hank
 
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Robert Prey said:
Nonsense. If the P test were positive, McAdams and the rest of you Lone Nutters would champion it as proof of guilt.
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No, Robert. We're not so desperate for evidence that we would cite something that has no evidentiary value. I'll leave that to the conspiracy nuts.

You remember quoting Vincent DiMaio on bullet wounds?

You did it here, quoting a Michael Griffith article you found online:
Robert Prey said:
... That quote is worth repeating, and note that Dr. DiMaio says that even in cases where an FMJ bullet perforates bone only rarely will the missile leave fragments, and that even then the fragments will be "few":
[/B]
In x-rays of through-and-through gunshot wounds, the presence of small fragments of metal along the wound track virtually rules out full metal-jacketed ammunition.. . . In rare instances, involving full metal-jacketed centerfire rifle bullets, a few small, dust-like fragments of lead may be seen on x-ray if the bullet perforates bone. One of the most characteristic x-rays and one that will indicate the type of weapon and ammunition used is that seen from centerfire rifles firing hunting ammunition. In such a case, one will see a "lead snowstorm". . . . Such a picture rules out full metal-jacketed rifle ammunition or a shotgun slug. (Gunshot Wounds, CRC Press, Boca Raton, 1999, p. 318, emphasis added)
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Ok, allow me to quote DiMaio on the paraffin test from the SAME BOOK, eight pages later:
Vincent J. M. Di Maio, in Gunshot Wounds: Practical Aspects of Firearms, Ballistics, and Forensic Techniques, see page 327:

"The ability to determine whether an individual has fired a firearm is of great significance in the investigation of both homicides and suicides. ... A positive test was indicated by the presence of blue flecks in the paraffin. Although this test may give positive results on the hands of individuals who fired weapons, it also gives positive results on the hands of individuals who had not fired weapons because of the widespread distribution of nitrates and nitrites in our environment. The paraffin test is in fact nonspecific and is of no use scientifically."

Is DiMaio lying about this?

Or are you ignoring the evidence and trumpeting bogus 'facts' as if they were important?

The evidence indicates the latter.

Hank
 
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Robert Prey said:
"the CIA and FBI both use VSA at times, in their own investigations. The technology is currently recognized in 43 states. The biggest user of VSA technology in the USA is US law Enforcement agencies. Law Enforcement agencies in Israel, India, Malaysia, South Africa, China, Hong Kong, Poland, Russia, use VSA alongside polygraph.
Many intelligence agencies as well as private forensic psychophysiologists worldwide utilise VSA in preference to polygraph technology."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_stress_analysis
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lol.

From the source you cite above:

The technique's accuracy remains debated. There are independent research studies that support the use of VSA as a reliable lie detection technology, whilst there are other studies that dispute its reliability.

Did you happen to overlook that point?

It is as I said, unproven technology. After 40 years, it's still unproven.

Cite it all you want. It won't make it true.

Call me when you get some valid evidence.

Hank
 
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Robert Prey said:
Was Caesar murdered with a pillow? How about Abe Lincoln? Or McKinley? Or Garfield? Or the attempt on TR? No, I don't think pillows are very professional.
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Were the 60 senators professional killers? Was Booth? Or Czolgosz? Or Guiteau? Or Schrank? None of them? Senators and saloonkeepers, actors and anarchists and a lawyer. Seems like a gun is perfect for an amateur assassin. Like LHO.
 
bynmdsue said:
Were the 60 senators professional killers? Was Booth? Or Czolgosz? Or Guiteau? Or Schrank? None of them? Senators and saloonkeepers, actors and anarchists and a lawyer. Seems like a gun is perfect for an amateur assassin. Like LHO.
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LHO was a charmless screwup who came to the grimly banal conclusion that infamy is better than no fame at all and therefore decided to take potshots at his betters.

The above also serves as a pretty fair description of your average Conspiracy Theorist. Funny, that.




And of course by "funny" I mean heartbreakingly sad.
 
HSienzant said:
No, Robert. We're not so desperate for evidence that we would cite something that has no evidentiary value. I'll leave that to the conspiracy nuts.

You remember quoting Vincent DiMaio on bullet wounds?

You did it here, quoting a Michael Griffith article you found online:



Ok, allow me to quote DiMaio on the paraffin test from the SAME BOOK, eight pages later:
Vincent J. M. Di Maio, in Gunshot Wounds: Practical Aspects of Firearms, Ballistics, and Forensic Techniques, see page 327:

"The ability to determine whether an individual has fired a firearm is of great significance in the investigation of both homicides and suicides. ... A positive test was indicated by the presence of blue flecks in the paraffin. Although this test may give positive results on the hands of individuals who fired weapons, it also gives positive results on the hands of individuals who had not fired weapons because of the widespread distribution of nitrates and nitrites in our environment. The paraffin test is in fact nonspecific and is of no use scientifically."

Is DiMaio lying about this?

Or are you ignoring the evidence and trumpeting bogus 'facts' as if they were important?

The evidence indicates the latter.

Hank
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If the P test is of no use, then why was it conducted?????
 
HSienzant said:
Hi Robert,

Please advise the date Oswald ordered the rifle. Do you know?
Now advise the date the trip to Dallas was confirmed. Do you know?

You are conflating the facts to make it seem like Oswald ordered the rifle to shoot JFK. But at the time Oswald ordered the rifle, there were no plans for JFK to go to Dallas. The evidence indicates Oswald ordered the rifle to shoot General Walker, an attempt he carried out in April of 1963.
Hank
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Also unproven. Still makes no sense to leave a paper trail, regardless. And you don't know what LHO's handlers were thinking when they began the frsme-up with the paper trail order.
 
HSienzant said:
Are you serious?

How'd those perfect plans to assassinate Castro work out? The ones devised and executed by professionals?

Last I looked, he's still alive.

One of those professional plans -- an exploding cigar.

Hank
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Nonetheless the record shows that there was an assassination team practicing the potential assassination of Castro.
 
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