Socialism in the US

[MG1962]

Meaning you want a special permission to make it mean what you want?

Or maybe meaning you never understood the meaning in the first place. Australia is currently governed by the oldest socialist party in the world. Does that make Australia a socialist country?

Australia has industries that are government run directly competing with private enterprise in the same sector. What does that make the nation - sort of a socialist country that isn't a socialist country, but might be

 

[crimresearch]

Some people think words cannot evolve. BTW: I would be happy with the pedantic view if folks on the right would call out others on the right who misuse the word.

It isn't about words evolving, it is about the stubborn insistence by some that words which have the same letters in front must mean exactly the same thing.

Again (for general edification) social-ism is a noun. It describes the theory. It doesn't work in the real world because of Acton's axiom.

Social-ist is an adjective, and it is the illiteracy of not knowing that, which seems to be sustaining some of the posters here.

It modifies a noun, like 'country' and it refers to someone or something that identifies strongly with the theory. Nowhere does it say that the theory must work perfectly in practice, to be 'socialist'.

Links to dictionary already posted.

 

[WildCat]

You are really hung up on that term aren't you. You keep repeating it as if it has something to actually contribute to the discussion. Maybe you should try sources beyond the opening line of a Wiki article

Yeah, I have a thing for proper definitions of words. Language gets hard to understand if people are allowed to assign any meaning they like to a word.

Here's a clue: social welfare ≠ socialism

They are different things.

 

[WildCat]

But by your definition the fact there is any free market control of production destroys your very definition of socialism. According to you China is not a socialist country. So you need to redefine your definition to accomodate what is actually happening in the world

They're not pure socialist, but few (if any) countries are pure anything.

 

[MG1962]

Yeah, I have a thing for proper definitions of words. Language gets hard to understand if people are allowed to assign any meaning they like to a word.

Here's a clue: social welfare ≠ socialism

They are different things.

But you avoided the actual question I asked you - under your definition China is not a socialist country. Do you still stand by that?

 

[WildCat]

Can words evolve? If so many Republicans use the word for govt intervention and Democrats come to accept that then why can't another usage of the word emerge?

As already stated, the word becomes meaning less if it means "any government spending I don't like".

Lots of people think the word "ignorant" is a synonym for "rude". Shall the rest of us go along?

 

[MG1962]

They're not pure socialist, but few (if any) countries are pure anything.

Ohh so now there are degrees of socialism? Then that just made your definition get very mushy

 

[WildCat]

Some people think words cannot evolve.

So let's hear your proposed new definition of the word "socialism".

 

[WildCat]

But you avoided the actual question I asked you - under your definition China is not a socialist country. Do you still stand by that?

It's a socialist-capitalist mix, with the government being a major player in industry.

Are you done with the excluded middle fallacies now?

 

[RandFan]

As already stated, the word becomes meaning less if it means "any government spending I don't like".

I agree. But it would be a false dichotomy to argue that the definition must either be the classical one or "any government spending I don't like".

However, props for that. Seriously. Thanks. I think the word has indeed come to mean that and if we could keep the word to its classical definition to stop that then I would be all for it.

Lots of people think the word "ignorant" is a synonym for "rude". Shall the rest of us go along?

I'm not sure that the evolution of words have much to do with what society should do. If the word becomes a synonym for "rude" then what you or I want, like or think will have no effect.

 

[respect]

Merrriam-Webster agree that China is not a socialist country?

But lets ask the Oxford dictionary what it thinks

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/socialism

Okay so you are also in the camp that China is not a Socialist country?

What the hell are you talking about? The Chinese government still owns and controls a lot of the country's industry. That it has liberalized some markets does not make its socialist activities stop being socialist.

 

[RandFan]

So let's hear your proposed new definition of the word "socialism".

I would not be so presumptive. I can only observe and acknowledge the various usages.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/01/22/is-president-obama-truly-a-socialist/

Is President Obama Truly A Socialist?

By “socialist,” I do not mean a Lenin, Castro, or Mao, but whether Obama falls within the mainstream of contemporary socialism as represented, for example, by Germany’s Social Democrats, French Socialists, or Spain’s socialist-workers party?

By this criterion, yes, Obama is a socialist.

 

[respect]

Because you say so?

He wasn't saying America is a socialist country.

 

[Pardalis]

No, I mean it strikes me as silly to pretend that people don't use words in *ways that the words did not start out as. I mean there is a science that studies the evolution of words.

Would you admit that there is a popular usage of the word that does not fit the classical definition (see below for many examples).

I don't have to respond to other people's misguided use of the word.

 

[Pardalis]

What does that make the nation - sort of a socialist country that isn't a socialist country, but might be

Simple, it isn't.

 

[RandFan]

I don't have to respond to other people's misguided use of the word.

What makes the evolution of a word not misguided? Is every word you use the classical definition?

 

[Pardalis]

What makes the evolution of a word not misguided? Is every word you use the classical definition?

If you type a word on the Google search engine, you will find lots of misuses of the word. I don't have to respond to every each of them.

 

[respect]

Yeah, I have a thing for proper definitions of words. Language gets hard to understand if people are allowed to assign any meaning they like to a word.

Here's a clue: social welfare ≠ socialism

They are different things.

The interest thing here is how many liberals here seem to think that the GOP's misuse of the word is correct.

 

[RandFan]

If you type a word on the Google search engine, you will find lots of misuses of the word. I don't have to respond to every each of them.

Doesn't every new usage of a word involve a misuse of a word at some point? Do you only use words in their classical sense?

 

[respect]

If you type a word on the Google search engine, you will find lots of misuses of the word. I don't have to respond to every each of them.

It seems that a lot of these guys agree with the GOP talking point that Obama is a socialist, even though he isn't.