The Incredible odds of fulfilled bible prophecy

DOC said:
I've read the entire New Testament and most of the Old Testament. Let's just say I know enough about the Bible to fuel a 400+ page biblical Evidence thread which has close to 600,000 hits.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5959646#post5959646

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6366925#post6366925
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Have you ever heard about Quality Vs. Quantity?

A sewer has millions of gallons of crap that flows through it and thousands of municipality workers that try to keep the crap from blocking it and overflowing onto the streets and homes of unsuspecting people.
 
Leumas said:
Have you ever heard about Quality Vs. Quantity?

A sewer has millions of gallons of crap that flows through it and thousands of municipality workers that try to keep the crap from blocking it and overflowing onto the streets and homes of unsuspecting people.
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I wouldn't be so dismissive of DOC's work. He has had greater success turning people away from Xtianity than any other poster on this forum.

I'm not entirely sure that it is accidental. He does a great job of showing how irrational and stubbornly stupid some religious people can be. If deliberate, he is a genius. If accidental, I see no reason to discourage him.

Keep it up DOC, and soon there won't be any Xtians left at all.
 
Brainache said:
I wouldn't be so dismissive of DOC's work. He has had greater success turning people away from Xtianity than any other poster on this forum.

I'm not entirely sure that it is accidental. He does a great job of showing how irrational and stubbornly stupid some religious people can be. If deliberate, he is a genius. If accidental, I see no reason to discourage him.

Keep it up DOC, and soon there won't be any Xtians left at all.
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Brainache said:
I wouldn't be so dismissive of DOC's work. He has had greater success turning people away from Xtianity than any other poster on this forum.

I'm not entirely sure that it is accidental. He does a great job of showing how irrational and stubbornly stupid some religious people can be. If deliberate, he is a genius. If accidental, I see no reason to discourage him.

Keep it up DOC, and soon there won't be any Xtians left at all.
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If you can't point to a specific post, it didn't happen.
 
DOC said:
I've read the entire New Testament and most of the Old Testament. Let's just say I know enough about the Bible to fuel a 400+ page biblical Evidence thread which has close to 600,000 hits.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5959646#post5959646

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6366925#post6366925
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There is enough of your bull$#^* in that thread to keep people coming back to it for laughs. You are kidding yourself if you think people are reading that for any other reason.
 
Posted by TimCallahan

It's in the post: Isaiah 20:4. Here it is again; note the emphasis:

. . . so shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians captives and the Ethiopians exiles, both young and old, naked and bare foot, with buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

The time frame is determined by history, as I already pointed out. The capitol of the Assyrian Empire, Nineveh, fell in 612 BCE. Thus, the prophecies against Egypt in Isaiah 19 and 20 referred to that time. Read my post again. You obviously missed a lot the first time through.

dafydd said:
That prophecy failed Doc. Why can't you admit it?
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Explain how it is impossible to have happened with sources.
 
DOC said:
Explain how it is impossible to have happened with sources.
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Already done, DOC. Your refusal to read Tim Callahan's posts doesn't make them disappear, you know. Everyone can see that you're outright denying that the evidence that been placed right in front of you.

Also, learn to quote properly.
 
Akhenaten said:
Already done, DOC. Your refusal to read Tim Callahan's posts doesn't make them disappear, you know. Everyone can see that you're outright denying that the evidence that been placed right in front of you.

Also, learn to quote properly.
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Which post did he say Isaiah 20:4 was incorrect.
 
DOC said:
Which post did he say Isaiah 20:4 was incorrect.
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He didn't. Try reading the original post for comprehension. Here it is.
TimCallahan said:
Here's the main problem with your attempt to fit the prophecies of Isaiah concerning Egypt into current events. The prophecies were meant for their time. The prophecies against Egypt continue into Isaiah 20. It begins with Sargon's general taking the city of Ashdod. God tells Isaiah to walk about the land of Israel barefoot and wearing only sackcloth about his loins. This is a sign of what will happen to the Egyptians and Ethiopians. Egypt at the time was ruled by the 25th, or Cushite dynasty, Cush being just south of Egypt and often conflated with Ethiopia. The prophecy in Isaiah 20 specifically states (Is. 20:4):

. . . so shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians captives and the Ethiopians exiles, both the young and the old, naked and barefoot, with buttocks uncovered to the shame of Egypt.

Since the Assyrian Empire came to a violent end in 612, when the Medes and Chaldeans sacked Nineveh, this prophecy can only be for some time preceding that date. In the historical context of Isaiah, the reason the prophet railed against Egypt was that, in order to keep the Assyrians from invading them, the Egyptians fostered rebellions in the Levantine provinces of the Assyrian Empire in the hope that the Assyrians would have their hands full putting down the revolts and be unable to mount an invasion of Egypt. In the process of defending their interests, they used Judah and the over Levantine kingdoms as a cat's paw. Isaiah blamed them for inciting Judah against the Assyrians, resulting in the Assyrians devastating Judah.

Isaiah predicts that the Assyrians will conquer Egypt. Is this a true prophecy? Yes, to some degree: The Assyrians under Esarhaddon conquered the Nile delta. It wasn't until the reign of Asshurbanipul that the Assyrians conquered Upper Egypt, putting Pharaoh Taharka to flight and capturing Taharka's wife. Was divine inspiration necessary to make this prediction? Probably not. The Assyrians were far more powerful than the Egyptians, were expanding and were bound to tire of Egyptian intrigues in the Levant. Thus,the prediction that the Assyrians would conquer Egypt was based on logical probability, not divine inspiration.

It should also be noted that the Egyptian rulers of the city Sais, after ruling Egypt under the Assyrians, stopped paying tribute to the Assyrians, even while Asshurbanipul was still alive, setting themselves up as the new pharaohs of the 26th. or Saite Dynasty.

Historical context is extremely important for understanding the antagonism of the various prophets toward the nations , for whom the prophesied doom. For example, Tyre had, in the eyes of Jeremiah and Ezekiel, led Judah to revolt against the Chaldeans. This, along with the fact that Ezekiel specifically names Nebuchadrezzar as the king who will destroy Tyre, is why it's absurd to try to assert that the taking of Tyre by Alexander the Great was the fulfillment of Ezekiel's prophecy.
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The fact that Isaiah 20:4 refers to Assyria limits the range of time when the associated prophecies can apply. Since Assyria ended in 612 BC, any prophecy regarding Assyria that was not fulfilled before then can be said to have failed.
 
zooterkin said:
The fact that Isaiah 20:4 refers to Assyria limits the range of time when the associated prophecies can apply. Since Assyria ended in 612 BC, any prophecy regarding Assyria that was not fulfilled before then can be said to have failed.
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So what is the prophecy in Isaiah that allegedly failed and why was it impossible to have occured?
 
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DOC said:
I've read the entire New Testament and most of the Old Testament. Let's just say I know enough about the Bible to fuel a 400+ page biblical Evidence thread which has close to 600,000 hits.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5959646#post5959646

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6366925#post6366925
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This claim is as valid as an automobile driver claiming that he must be really skilled because of the huge number of passing drivers who slow down to look at the twisted, flaming wreckage where he crashed his car.
 
DOC said:
So what is the prophecy in Isaiah that allegedly failed and why was it impossible to have occured?
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Very funny.

Now, click on the little arrow by the quote of TimCallahan's post, and go back and see the post of yours it is replying to. It is pointing out that just because Egypt is mentioned in some of the verses doesn't mean the prophecy can apply to modern-day Egypt.


Look, because you seem to what my kids would call 'special', here it is with your post that was responded to:


TimCallahan said:
DOC said:
The verse you brought in, and the King James version, doesn't use the word Nile. But even if it did, human history is not over and things don't look good for the Nile these days.

http://www.greenprophet.com/2010/08/egypt-water-protest/

http://news.mongabay.com/2006/1213-nasa_water.html

___

Also in Isaiah Chapter 19 vs. 2 it says this:

"And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother..."

Sounds like recent CNN reports.
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Here's the main problem with your attempt to fit the prophecies of Isaiah concerning Egypt into current events. The prophecies were meant for their time. The prophecies against Egypt continue into Isaiah 20. It begins with Sargon's general taking the city of Ashdod. God tells Isaiah to walk about the land of Israel barefoot and wearing only sackcloth about his loins. This is a sign of what will happen to the Egyptians and Ethiopians. Egypt at the time was ruled by the 25th, or Cushite dynasty, Cush being just south of Egypt and often conflated with Ethiopia. The prophecy in Isaiah 20 specifically states (Is. 20:4):

. . . so shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians captives and the Ethiopians exiles, both the young and the old, naked and barefoot, with buttocks uncovered to the shame of Egypt.

Since the Assyrian Empire came to a violent end in 612, when the Medes and Chaldeans sacked Nineveh, this prophecy can only be for some time preceding that date. In the historical context of Isaiah, the reason the prophet railed against Egypt was that, in order to keep the Assyrians from invading them, the Egyptians fostered rebellions in the Levantine provinces of the Assyrian Empire in the hope that the Assyrians would have their hands full putting down the revolts and be unable to mount an invasion of Egypt. In the process of defending their interests, they used Judah and the over Levantine kingdoms as a cat's paw. Isaiah blamed them for inciting Judah against the Assyrians, resulting in the Assyrians devastating Judah.

Isaiah predicts that the Assyrians will conquer Egypt. Is this a true prophecy? Yes, to some degree: The Assyrians under Esarhaddon conquered the Nile delta. It wasn't until the reign of Asshurbanipul that the Assyrians conquered Upper Egypt, putting Pharaoh Taharka to flight and capturing Taharka's wife. Was divine inspiration necessary to make this prediction? Probably not. The Assyrians were far more powerful than the Egyptians, were expanding and were bound to tire of Egyptian intrigues in the Levant. Thus,the prediction that the Assyrians would conquer Egypt was based on logical probability, not divine inspiration.

It should also be noted that the Egyptian rulers of the city Sais, after ruling Egypt under the Assyrians, stopped paying tribute to the Assyrians, even while Asshurbanipul was still alive, setting themselves up as the new pharaohs of the 26th. or Saite Dynasty.

Historical context is extremely important for understanding the antagonism of the various prophets toward the nations , for whom the prophesied doom. For example, Tyre had, in the eyes of Jeremiah and Ezekiel, led Judah to revolt against the Chaldeans. This, along with the fact that Ezekiel specifically names Nebuchadrezzar as the king who will destroy Tyre, is why it's absurd to try to assert that the taking of Tyre by Alexander the Great was the fulfillment of Ezekiel's prophecy.
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If you're still not getting it, then follow the links backwards and see each preceding post.
 
zooterkin said:
He didn't. Try reading the original post for comprehension. Here it is.



The fact that Isaiah 20:4 refers to Assyria limits the range of time when the associated prophecies can apply. Since Assyria ended in 612 BC, any prophecy regarding Assyria that was not fulfilled before then can be said to have failed.
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Unless Assyria rises again, so it can fall again! Or that parts of the prophecy are not meant to be taken literally. Or both.

Just trying to think like DOC!

BTW, driving into town I pass by several churches. One is a Church of Prophecy.
People around these here parts take DOC's position pretty seriously.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Unless Assyria rises again, so it can fall again! Or that parts of the prophecy are not meant to be taken literally. Or both.

Just trying to think like DOC!

BTW, driving into town I pass by several churches. One is a Church of Prophecy.
People around these here parts take DOC's position pretty seriously.
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Perhaps Doc could give us two lists, one of bible prophecies that are meant to be taken literally and a list of those that are not.
 
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