The Failure of AE9/11T

[CompusMentus]

Most dedicated truther sites have been abandoned...ghost towns on the electric highway.

Firefighters for Truth - (last update Aug/2008)
Lawyers for Truth (No dates, zero activity)
Scholars for Truth (last update Sep/2011)
Veterans for Truth (domain suspended)
Political Leaders for Truth (last update Mar/2009)
Military Officers for Truth (last update Sep/2010)
Medical Professionals for Truth (last update Dec/2010)
World for Truth (last update Sep/2011)
Scientists for Truth (last update Jul/2011)


The only ones still updated daily get by because their members believe in every CT known to man. It's pathetic.

You can add the pathetic CIT and Loose Change fora to that list. Between them they can only muster one or two contributions per week


CIT
Loose Change


Compus

 

[Edx]

Interesting isn't it.

www.wcnews.com

Thats a fan site for a old game franchise. They've been providing daily updates for years now and still have an active fan community. I guess ergo thinks that active means inactive.

 

[ozeco41]

...The signers may only agree with Gage in a sense that a new investigation is warranted...but maybe not for the reasons Gage outlines...

That has long been my guess as to motivation. The petition is written to make it easy to think "I may as well ask for a new investigations - after all it can do no harm if we get one -- and nothing lost if we don't." And that is a long way short of supporting Gage's idiotic claims re demolition etc.

Please Take Notice That:

On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 – specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7. We believe there is sufficient doubt about the official story to justify re-opening the 9/11 investigation. The new investigation must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that might have been the actual cause of the destruction of the World Trade Center Twin Towers and Building 7.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned

Anyone can sign that without joining Gage in his lies - it stops a long way short of supporting Gage's idiotic claims re demolition etc. So those signing the petition do not have to commit themselves to supporting Gage's lies thereby becoming liars themselves. And "we believe there is sufficient doubt" is rebuttal proof - "Sure, I did believe it at the time...."

 

[Oystein]

The truth movement is dead. There's nothing happening. It's over.

It's been the same old claptrap from truthers since 2002. The world has moved on, while truthers are ignored as if they were lunatics drooling in the corner. Nobody cares.

Most dedicated truther sites have been abandoned...ghost towns on the electric highway.

Firefighters for Truth - (last update Aug/2008)
Scholars for Truth (last update Sep/2011)
...

Cool.
But:
Firefighters last update that I found (Blog Archive) March 2010
Scholars: 1st January 2012

 

[Oystein]

That has long been my guess as to motivation. The petition is written to make it easy to think "I may as well ask for a new investigations - after all it can do no harm if we get one -- and nothing lost if we don't." And that is a long way short of supporting Gage's idiotic claims re demolition etc.

Hmm I disagree. If you look at their profils at random and read the personal statements, I think most do toe the woo line.
But remember: These people are a tiny tiny fringe. 0.05% of the target audience have signed, and they have trouble finding any more. 0.05% wil also beleieve that Elvis and Hitler have married and now live on the moon.

 

[carlitos]

 

[ozeco41]

Hmm I disagree. If you look at their profils at random and read the personal statements, I think most do toe the woo line....

Could well be - you do far more research than I do. Hence my cop-out verb "guess"

...But remember: These people are a tiny tiny fringe. 0.05% of the target audience have signed, and they have trouble finding any more. 0.05% wil also beleieve that Elvis and Hitler have married and now live on the moon.

That bit of stats is the key. In any population you would expect a few percent to vote in the ratbag fringe. 0.05% is far less than I would normally expect. Probably due to selected audience - engineers are not generally stupid despite some reservations about reasoning capability when off the beaten track. Architects probably similar but with a more limited understanding of the technical aspects of structures.

Of course I am playing along with the false analogy. The true percentage should be what proportion of those actually presented with the challenge to sign the petition actually did sign. Even that isn't pure but I don't see any need to fully think it through.



Errrr:

...But remember...Elvis and Hitler have married....

Each other?

 

[RCory]

The signers may only agree with Gage in a sense that a new investigation is warranted...but maybe not for the reasons Gage outlines.

I don't see how the signers of that petition have authorized Gage or anyone else to speak on their behalf on all things 9/11. Based on Oystein's observations about their profiles, perhaps few would object, but Gage is certainly taking some liberties saying he "represents 1600+ architects and engineers who believe...". The petition is very limited in what it says.

And I understand they've now resorted to looking up architects and engineers in the yellow pages and mailing them their catchy postcards.

 

[Scott Sommers]

Hmm I disagree. If you look at their profils at random and read the personal statements, I think most do toe the woo line.
But remember: These people are a tiny tiny fringe. 0.05% of the target audience have signed, and they have trouble finding any more. 0.05% wil also beleieve that Elvis and Hitler have married and now live on the moon.

In fact, I suspect there are many more architects and engineers that Gage could conceivably get to sign his thing. I doubt it would ever be more than 1-2% of the working profession. But who knows. The significant part for me is that despite the reasonably impressive number, he has been unable to start a professional discourse. In fact, the AEs seem remarkably uninterested in the importance of their belief for their professional work.

This makes me wonder if the origin of their beliefs are not the factual information that's been presented. In this context, ergo does make a good point comparing 9/11T with an anti-war movement. If we examined an anti-war demonstration or petition signatories, I doubt there is even one person whose presence would be motivated by a factual argument. It would always be a moral decision first. Once that decision was made, then the search would begin for a factual argument against whatever war. Even if no factual argument could be found, would it effect someone's support for or against this war? Not a chance.

And that's how I am increasingly seeing advocacy for 9/11T. It's the moral choice to begin a search for a physical evidence. The lack of meaningful evidence is completely unimportant.

I suppose I can stretch this analogy and say that just like church attendance, there are people who attend devoutly and people for whom worship is a personal matter. This might be reasonably effected by matters such as how embarrassing it is to admit you believe these things or how much damage it could do to your career. But suppression of the public version of the idea would probably not affect your belief. In fact, it might even make it stronger. And that....that would be cognitive dissonance.

This is the direction I'd like our new investigation to take.

 

[Myriad]

I'll accept a straight-up comparison of the quiescent state of the 9/11 truth movement, with the current relatively quiescent state of the peace movement, when millions of church-goers at Sunday services stand up to greet attendees in adjacent pews with "Truth be with you," and millions of Christmas cards are exchanged that read something like "Truth on earth, goodwill to men not named Silverstein."

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[Grizzly Bear]

In fact, I suspect there are many more architects and engineers that Gage could conceivably get to sign his thing. I doubt it would ever be more than 1-2% of the working profession. But who knows. The significant part for me is that despite the reasonably impressive number, he has been unable to start a professional discourse. In fact, the AEs seem remarkably uninterested in the importance of their belief for their professional work.

Same for me. Their normal excuse that the rest have folded to fears of retaliation and thus remain silent/uninformed doesn't hold up when it's AE911 itself that has neither taken the interest in influencing the relevant professions nor targeted to the professional field with its message. I find their biggest failure not as much in the stupidity of their claims so much as they don't have the integrity to actually present it in front a board of professional peers, though the two are certainly hand in hand in terms of the reasons for not voicing themselves this way in the first place.

 

[MarkLindeman]

Hmm I disagree. If you look at their profils at random and read the personal statements, I think most do toe the woo line.

Yes, after collecting all 1600 or so personal statements from the professionals and power-skimming them, I see more woo than I might have expected, although it comes in various flavors.

For kicks, I created a Wordle from the statements, after making a few processing tweaks (most importantly changing "7" to "seven" to better represent how many people referred to WTC 7).