IAEA inspections underway in Iran

[McHrozni]

The Parchin site is not nuclear-related.

Got any proof for that claim?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam_Hossein_University#Parchin_Site

On 29 December 2003, the Wall Street Journal reported that, Ahmad Shirzad, a deputy from the city of Isfahan, stated that there was a large nuclear underground facility in Parchin. [24] In an article in the Washington Times, on 7 March 2004, claimed that Iran's nuclear weapons program included use of Belarus-Russian filtering and high-temperature melting technologies for uranium enrichment. [25] The accurate technique supposedly involved was unclear, but would appear to have been thermal diffusion.

IAEA inspectors to visit the Parchin military site in the interests of transparency, but the visit was limited to only few areas.

It would appear Parchin is both a nuclear and non-nuclear site at the same time until it is inspected. It's like Schrödingers' cat.

McHrozni

 

[Weird Science]

Are you refering to Ahmadinejad saying Israel should be "wiped off the map"? I don't think changing the ink on a map is analagous to nuclear eradication.

During the Numremberg trials, there were numerous quibbles by the defendants about the "real meaning" of words like "eradication (ausrottung) of Jewry and "final solution" (endlosung). They all claimed the words have various meaning, and, God forbid, they had no idea about the real meaning. Apparently, they all didn't speak German that well. The excuses made about what "wiping Israel off the map" "really means" are on the same level of crediblity.

What do I blame? Capitalism - the bloated, ethically delinquent system

Ah, of course. But you, yourself, live in a capitalist country, right? And would never in a million years emigrate from the "bloated ethnically delinquent system" of capitalism to the Islamic faith-based communities, or to the various paradises of the workers, which you profess to prefer, right? You are just as much a capitalist as I am, only not as honest.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Well, I suppose if the IAEA found nothing in the areas that the Iranians allowed them to inspect seven years ago that means that there is nothing illegal going on today.

Imagine if...

8 years ago the DEA turn up at your home, accusing you of cultivating cannabis. You allow them to inspect the garage, but no sign of illegal activity is found.

7 years ago they come back with the same claim, but this time they demand access to every room in your house as well as the garage. Again, they find nothing.

But your neighbors are sure that you must be growing marijuana somewhere on the premises (your lights are often on late at night with the shades drawn - a sure sign that you are up to something).

So now they're back again. This time they want to rip up the floorboards, photocopy all your correspondence and take your computer away for analysis. What do you do?

 

[JihadJane]

During the Numremberg trials, there were numerous quibbles by the defendants about the "real meaning" of words like "eradication (ausrottung) of Jewry and "final solution" (endlosung). They all claimed the words have various meaning, and, God forbid, they had no idea about the real meaning. Apparently, they all didn't speak German that well. The excuses made about what "wiping Israel off the map" "really means" are on the same level of crediblity.

No-one even said they wanted to "wipe Isreal off the map'. Reference, please, with original Persian and accurate translation, if you believe otherwise.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

On 29 December 2003, the Wall Street Journal reported that, Ahmad Shirzad, a deputy from the city of Isfahan, stated that there was a large nuclear underground facility in Parchin.

And yet the inspectors found nothing of the sort. Now where have I heard that story before?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War#Biological_weapons

Iraqi scientist Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi codenamed "Curveball", admitted in February 2011, that he lied to the CIA about biological weapons in order to get the US to attack and remove Hussein from power.

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. But I'm not taking the word of some disaffected bureaucrat. The IAEA have sophisticated detection equipment that makes it very difficult to hide the presence of a 'large nuclear underground facility'.

 

[The Dark Lord]

Imagine if...

8 years ago the DEA turn up at your home, accusing you of cultivating cannabis. You allow them to inspect the garage, but no sign of illegal activity is found.

7 years ago they come back with the same claim, but this time they demand access to every room in your house as well as the garage. Again, they find nothing.

But your neighbors are sure that you must be growing marijuana somewhere on the premises (your lights are often on late at night with the shades drawn - a sure sign that you are up to something).

So now they're back again. This time they want to rip up the floorboards, photocopy all your correspondence and take your computer away for analysis. What do you do?

Do you have any evidence that the IAEA was allowed access to the entire facility in 2005? Otherwise your analogy totally falls apart.

And to answer your question, I would have told the police to **** off the first time. Because I am under no obligation to demonstrate to the police that I am not growing marijuana and thus your analogy totally falls apart for the second time.

 

[McHrozni]

And yet the inspectors found nothing of the sort. Now where have I heard that story before?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War#Biological_weapons



Maybe they do, maybe they don't. But I'm not taking the word of some disaffected bureaucrat. The IAEA have sophisticated detection equipment that makes it very difficult to hide the presence of a 'large nuclear underground facility'.

In other words, you don't have any evidence the facility has no relation to nuclear weapons, it's just your opinion. Thank you.

McHrozni

 

[Bad Lieutenant]

If the Iranians believe they are going to be invaded for oil, they are retarded. Same with anybody else who thinks so. It is much easier and cheaper to just deal with the Iranian regime and buy oil from them if oil is what you want.

Iraq was invaded for oil - uncomfortable but true. Anybody who says otherwise prefers comfort to the truth and, again, who can blame them. War is good for business - the military industrial complex likes war. Free oil is cheaper than $100 a barrel oil.

Capitalism has produced the highest standard of living that the world has seen.

Not necessarily true - material gains are secondary to psychological wellbeing and healthcare is thankfully divorced from the capitalist system to a greater extent.

Without capitalism, you wouldn't even be typing your messages here.

Because it's impossible to develop and manufacture technology in a planned economy.

 

[Bad Lieutenant]

Ah, of course. But you, yourself, live in a capitalist country, right? And would never in a million years emigrate from the "bloated ethnically delinquent system" of capitalism to the Islamic faith-based communities, or to the various paradises of the workers, which you profess to prefer, right?

I really do prefer the system in Cuba. I might end up there one day; who knows...perhaps if enough people like me stick around in the UK I won't need to.

You are just as much a capitalist as I am, only not as honest.

Perhaps one day, if I try really hard, I can be as honest as you.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

In other words, you don't have any evidence the facility has no relation to nuclear weapons, it's just your opinion.

That was the IAEA's 'opinion', not mine. But why should I have to produce evidence of absence? You made the claim that "Iran has a nuclear weapons program". Where's your evidence?

As for there being a 'large nuclear underground facility' at Parchin, unless you can come up with something better than this, I will consider that claim unproven.

The Agency did not observe any unusual activities in the buildings visited, and the results of the analysis of environmental samples did not indicate the presence of nuclear material at those locations. Visual inspection showed that sites were not as capable as suggested by satellite imagery.

 

[The Dark Lord]

Iraq was invaded for oil - uncomfortable but true. Anybody who says otherwise prefers comfort to the truth and, again, who can blame them. War is good for business - the military industrial complex likes war. Free oil is cheaper than $100 a barrel oil.

Iraq was not invaded for oil. The fact that $1 trillion has been/will be spent by the US to not get a drop of free oil kinda puts a huge hole in your conspiracy theory.

Not necessarily true - material gains are secondary to psychological wellbeing

Hmm, are people happier in commie crapholes or the capitalist west?

and healthcare is thankfully divorced from the capitalist system to a greater extent.

How does your government get the funds to pay for NHS? Oh, that's right, by collecting taxes on income that people earned in the capitalist economy. And where do the drugs, equipment, ect. come from? Oh, that's right, it's made by for profit companies.

Because it's impossible to develop and manufacture technology in a planned economy.

Pretty much. At least on a large scale for regular people. There is a reason that say, the microprocessor was invented in America by an American corporation rather than in commie Russia.

 

[McHrozni]

That was the IAEA's 'opinion', not mine.

Cite please.

But why should I have to produce evidence of absence?

Because you'd be reasonably able to, had it been the case. NPT requires that countries with nuclear programs prove they're intended for peaceful purposes through permitting intrusive IAEA inspections. Please point me to a report from IAEA that demonstrates Iran has fully cooperated with inspectors and that they found no reasons to believe that Iran has a nuclear weapons program or shut up.

McHrozni

 

[WildCat]

Are you refering to Ahmadinejad saying Israel should be "wiped off the map"? I don't think changing the ink on a map is analagous to nuclear eradication.

Is that all they're talking about? Changing the ink on a map?

 

[WildCat]

No-one even said they wanted to "wipe Isreal off the map'. Reference, please, with original Persian and accurate translation, if you believe otherwise.

See post #133. Translation by Iranians for Iranians and all are in Iran.

I've shown these to you how many times now Jane?

 

[WildCat]

Iraq was invaded for oil - uncomfortable but true. Anybody who says otherwise prefers comfort to the truth and, again, who can blame them. War is good for business - the military industrial complex likes war. Free oil is cheaper than $100 a barrel oil.

What planet do you live on?

 

[Bad Lieutenant]

What planet do you live on?

A planet where politicians lie and skepticism wins out over patriotism. Everybody I meet here also thinks Iraq was invaded for oil. Everybody. I'm far from alone, and we're all ashamed about it. Have you no shame? Have you no skepticism? Have you no patriotism? No, wait, you're patriotism is in tact. Good for you.

Nice photoshoping though the colours are a little too vivid etc.

 

[IDB87]

Everybody I meet here also thinks Iraq was invaded for oil. Everybody. I'm far from alone,

Everyone? That's a lot of people. Have you asked the Queen?

Nice photoshoping though the colours are a little too vivid etc.

<--- you

 

[The Dark Lord]

A planet where politicians lie and skepticism wins out over patriotism. Everybody I meet here also thinks Iraq was invaded for oil. Everybody. I'm far from alone, and we're all ashamed about it. Have you no shame? Have you no skepticism? Have you no patriotism? No, wait, you're patriotism is in tact. Good for you.

Nice photoshoping though the colours are a little too vivid etc.

I guess everybody you meet is a retard. Because the fact of the matter is that a huge amount of money was spent (almost certainly more than all the oil Iraq has produced since the invasion is worth) and no oil was taken. Not how you go about invading a country for oil.

 

[WildCat]

A planet where politicians lie and skepticism wins out over patriotism. Everybody I meet here also thinks Iraq was invaded for oil. Everybody. I'm far from alone, and we're all ashamed about it. Have you no shame? Have you no skepticism? Have you no patriotism? No, wait, you're patriotism is in tact. Good for you.

Nice photoshoping though the colours are a little too vivid etc.

So you think the government is stealing all kinds of oil from Iraq, but we don't know about it because all the politicians are lying?

 

[bigjelmapro]

The Parchin site is not nuclear-related. Perhaps the Iranians don't want foreign spies snooping around in there trying to gather military intelligence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam_Hossein_University#Parchin_Site

Using non-nuclear surrogates in testing of explosives predominantly used in nuclear research does not mean "not nuclear-related".

From IAEA report in Nov. 2011 (pdf):
Implementation of the NPT Safeguards Agreement and relevant provisions of Security Council resolutions in the Islamic Republic of Iran

...
49. Other information which the Agency has been provided by Member States indicates that Iran constructed a large explosives containment vessel in which to conduct hydrodynamic experiments. The explosives vessel, or chamber, is said to have been put in place at Parchin in 2000. A building was constructed at that time around a large cylindrical object at a location at the Parchin military complex. A large earth berm was subsequently constructed between the building containing the cylinder and a neighbouring building, indicating the probable use of high explosives in the chamber...

50. As a result of information the Agency obtained from a Member State in the early 2000s alleging that Iran was conducting high explosive testing, possibly in association with nuclear materials, at the Parchin military complex, the Agency was permitted by Iran to visit the site twice in 2005. From satellite imagery available at that time, the Agency identified a number of areas of interest, none of which, however, included the location now believed to contain the building which houses the explosives chamber mentioned above; consequently, the Agency’s visits did not uncover anything of relevance.

51. Hydrodynamic experiments such as those described above, which involve high explosives in conjunction with nuclear material or nuclear material surrogates, are strong indicators of possible weapon development. In addition, the use of surrogate material, and/or confinement provided by a chamber of the type indicated above, could be used to prevent contamination of the site with nuclear material. It remains for Iran to explain the rationale behind these activities.

Bolding mine.

I don't quite understand the lack of details in media outlets about this particular site other than an innate need to mislead the public about the particulars behind this site.

It's true, they didn't. But bogus claims of WMDs and nuclear weapons were still used to justify starting an unnecessary war that wrecked the country and killed hundreds of thousands of innocents. You'll forgive me if I am a little skeptical of this latest attempt.

And call me a bit skeptical for the useful idiots on a wide variety of forums that use Iraq as a perpetual meatshield when it comes to nuclear weapon programmes.