Derren Brown's screaming stooges

steenkh said:
If she was employed by Derren Brown, she would be bound by a contract not to reveal her employment. You would merely place her in an impossible situation where she would be forced to lie in order not to be sued.
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That seems unlikely to me. That would put Brown in the situation of having to sue someone for breaking a contract which he has already indicated he didn't make. For someone who has said that using stooges would be professionally embarrassing, suing someone who revealed that she was a stooge on the basis that she had contractually agreed not to reveal this information would be adding embarrassment on top of embarrassment. It's not going to happen.

If she was employed by Derren Brown, he would have to just ignore her claims - if he sued for breach of contract that would be acknowledging that she was correct and that he had lied the whole time.
 
John Albert said:
I wouldn't believe you at all in the absence of some form of objective confirmation, because you've proven to be extremely dishonest and have blatantly lied numerous times throughout this and the other thread.
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You post one lie Ive told. It hasnt happened dude.:rolleyes:
 
Matthew Best said:
If she was employed by Derren Brown, he would have to just ignore her claims - if he sued for breach of contract that would be acknowledging that she was correct and that he had lied the whole time.
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You may have a point there. OK, we will see what she says.
 
Matthew Best said:
So can you say what would falsify your belief that she was acting?
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That does not a good logic make.

Q: Holocaust denier, what would convince you the holocaust is real?
A: A signed and videotape confession from hitler himself.

Good luck finding that...
Hence the whole "burden of proof" thing (his claim, his burden)

Matthew Best said:
That seems unlikely to me. That would put Brown in the situation of having to sue someone for breaking a contract which he has already indicated he didn't make.
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Not really. The real danger to her would not be that Derren sues her. Her danger would come from that no other person on earth would hire her.
Would you hire someone who spilled the beans on a previous employer?
 
GrandMasterFox said:
That does not a good logic make.

Q: Holocaust denier, what would convince you the holocaust is real?
A: A signed and videotape confession from hitler himself.
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I disagree. I think it's perfect logic.

If someone won't state what they would accept as evidence that they are incorrect, then they have an unfalsifiable position and, as such, are dogmatic, entrenched and not worth arguing with. Like the religious.

ETA:

so I'd like this answered:

Matthew Best said:
So can you say what would falsify your belief that she was acting?
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GrandMasterFox said:
That does not a good logic make.

Q: Holocaust denier, what would convince you the holocaust is real?
A: A signed and videotape confession from hitler himself.

Good luck finding that...
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Well, this is a discussion, not a logic class. So getting information about what would satisfy someone in the discussion at least saves me and everyone else a lot of time digging out other stuff that doesn't satisfy that person's unrealistic expectations.
 
Of course I would accept any objective evidence that she was (or was not) acting. But I also acknowledge the fact that if she was acting, she was most likely bound by NDA not to reveal as much, or any other details of her performance on the show.

Perhaps there are other ways to determine whether or not she may have been acting, without asking her directly? Perhaps there are other questions that might resolve the issue without creating such a dilemma.

As I said before, I consider it highly unlikely that a professional actor would make an appearance on a national TV show without compensation of some sort. But on the other hand, being paid might not be one's only motivation. Maybe publicity or career advancement factored in somehow.

As I said before, whether she was paid is beside the point. The question remains whether her behavior was a theatrical performance.
 
John Albert said:
Of course I would accept any objective evidence that she was (or was not) acting. But I also acknowledge the fact that if she was acting, she was most likely bound by NDA not to reveal as much, or any other details of her performance on the show.
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And what do you think would be the penalty for breaking this NDA?
 
But, as has been pointed out, that would never happen, as it would mean Derren Brown admitting in open court that he employed an actor. So in effect he'd be making something public that he was at the same time suing to keep secret, which would be self-defeating.
 
John Albert can you proivde proof I have lied in this thread(makes it easier than searching previous one)as you claim.

Also I know of people who have spoken of taking part in Derren's shows so any NDA talk is redundant.

ETA: Derren has been on TV for about 10 years and yet the only "proof" of stooges is that Magda Rodriquez is an actor! What would Occams razor say about that?
 
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There is one other aspect to this "Derren Brown frequently uses stooges" hypothesis that I think should be considered (not sure if it's been already brought up in either thread):

DB is a very well known personality in the UK, and the UK is well known for its tabloid journalism. Given Derren's fame and his many assertions that he doesn't use stooges, it would be quite a coup for a tabloid to present an exposé and show that he does in fact employ actors. All the paper would have to do is find one or two actors willing to come forward, NDA or not, or even use anonymous sources. Even if no actor could be found to openly admit it, the paper could go with what we know about the Magda story. Why hasn't this happened?

Perhaps someone familiar with how British tabloids usually operate can share their POV.
 
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Matthew Best said:
But, as has been pointed out, that would never happen, as it would mean Derren Brown admitting in open court that he employed an actor. So in effect he'd be making something public that he was at the same time suing to keep secret, which would be self-defeating.
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Not necessarily. The proceedings would most likely be closed, and a gag order imposed.

Besides, as I've already pointed out, even if Derren were plainly shown to use stooges, it would not be "career suicide" as he lets on. That assertion is disingenuous posturing. He already has enough hardcore fans who will always believe whatever he says, no matter what.

Other magicians have had their use of stooges revealed, and their careers are still going strong. One of them in particular has been caught on camera sloppily revealing his own use of stooges without a doubt, even he has a popular show on the Vegas strip. Even Peter Popoff the faith healer still has a career swindling people with his faith-healing routine after being busted by Randi on Johnny Carson.

Magic is not science. In the world of magic, it doesn't matter what is proven, but what people accept and what people believe. People are going to believe what they want to believe. Most of DB's fans will believe whatever he says, and most others won't even care: "So a magician was caught using a trick to fool people. So what!" The "career suicide" claim is disingenuous nonsense.
 
Stooge in the Cabinet

Derren Brown frequently uses actors or stooges despite his assertions to the contrary. Any participant supposedly acting unconsciously under hypnosis is, in reality, just acting- full stop.

Apart from these actors, though less frequently, he does on occasion use full fledged stooges. One such example is found in "Enigma". In that program, the woman employed for a spirit cabinet routine is a stooge.

Anyone who has seen that show, and has a working familiarity with magic methods, should be able to spot the tell which indicates it is not the ghost in the machine, but the stooge in the cabinet that is propelling this illusion.

(p.s. The routine in question starts at about 45 mins. of the video)
 
AdMan said:
There is one other aspect to this "Derren Brown frequently uses stooges" hypothesis that I think should be considered (not sure if it's been already brought up in either thread):

DB is a very well known personality in the UK, and the UK is well known for its tabloid journalism. Given Derren's fame and his many assertions that he doesn't use stooges, it would be quite a coup for a tabloid to present an exposé and show that he does in fact employ actors. All the paper would have to do is find one or two actors willing to come forward, NDA or not, or even use anonymous sources. Even if no actor could be found to openly admit it, the paper could go with what we know about the Magda story. Why hasn't this happened?

Perhaps someone familiar with how British tabloids usually operate can share their POV.
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Clearly, Derren Brown has hypnotised all the tabloid editors :D
 
John Albert said:
Not necessarily. The proceedings would most likely be closed, and a gag order imposed.
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Well, if we're allowed to just make things up as we go along, then the answer to this is no, they wouldn't be closed and no gag order would be imposed.

Besides, as I've already pointed out, even if Derren were plainly shown to use stooges, it would not be "career suicide" as he lets on. That assertion is disingenuous posturing. He already has enough hardcore fans who will always believe whatever he says, no matter what.
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Right, so your position is that if Brown were to sue an actress in open court saying, in effect, "you are an actress whom I employed to pretend to be hypnotised, you promised not to tell anyone about it and now you have and I want compensation", then nobody here would believe that he had employed an actress.

I mean, I'd ridicule your position, but what's the point? :p
 
John Albert said:
Other magicians have had their use of stooges revealed, and their careers are still going strong. One of them in particular has been caught on camera sloppily revealing his own use of stooges without a doubt, even he has a popular show on the Vegas strip.
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You just ignore everyhting told to you. Thsoe other magicians didnt ever state they werent using stooges so no-one can complain at them.Logic Mr Albert,use it.


lane99 said:
Derren Brown frequently uses actors or stooges despite his assertions to the contrary.
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Ooh havent you grasped that you saying this isnt worth jack?
Any participant supposedly acting unconsciously under hypnosis is, in reality, just acting- full stop.
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ANd?

Apart from these actors,
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Which actor?The ones you have failed to prove?
..
though less frequently, he does on occasion use full fledged stooges. One such example is found in "Enigma". In that program, the woman employed for a spirit cabinet routine is a stooge.
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Great so show us your proof.
Anyone who has seen that show, and has a working familiarity with magic methods, should be able to spot the tell which indicates it is not the ghost in the machine, but the stooge in the cabinet that is propelling this illusion.

(p.s. The routine in question starts at about 45 mins. of the video)
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I've seen this post somehwere else just today,so either you are c&p garbage or just repeating your own garbage,which is it?
 
lane99 said:
. In that program, the woman employed for a spirit cabinet routine is a stooge.

Anyone who has seen that show, and has a working familiarity with magic methods, should be able to spot the tell which indicates it is not the ghost in the machine, but the stooge in the cabinet that is propelling this illusion.
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Okay just refreshed my memory of this by watching the clip.So with your statement in mind you will explain how a frisbee is thrown into a packed audience,caught by a random person who then proceeds to pass it to a one of a few random people standing -of his free choice -who is amazingly a pre-prepared stooge.

I can't wait. :rolleyes:
 
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