RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
Robert, what do you think of 7forever's evidence? It puts PAID to your grassy knoll nonsense, wouldn't you agree?
JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends
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Robert, what do you think of 7forever's evidence? It puts PAID to your grassy knoll nonsense, wouldn't you agree?
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
7forever, Robert Prey has absolutely trashed all of your silly low res pictures. How will you ever recover?
Robert Prey
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... and where's the alleged large gaping hole to the back of his head? The back of his head is largely visible from the Zapruder film after the fatal shot. There's clearly no massive trauma there, and absolutely ne evidence of ejecta rearwards when the bullet hits.
Again ... what's so complicated? It's all very straight forward (well, for those who aren't looking for something that's not there!).
I don't need to allege that the Z film has been altered when a home movie cannot possibly show split second events completely or accurately, but there is plenty of evidence of Z film fakery, especially regarding the back of the head. I suggest you check out David Lifton's 7 part series on Z film fakery on Youtube.
TheRedWorm
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Walter Ego
Illuminator
James Randi altered the Z-film?
Also, and not completely off topic, the JREF forums came into into existence in August of 2001 EXACTLY ONE MONTH BEFORE 9/11! Obviously the forums were debuted ahead of time to be in place to "debunk" the inside job. Connect the dots people!
I, for one, am completely convinced by the 7 year-old's irrefutable evidence that the diver shot JFK and am deeply ashamed that I was brainwashed for so many years into believing that LHO was the sole assassin.
7 has wiped the floor with Robert and exposed him for what he is... a government controlled disinfo agent. Slink back home to your CIA paymasters Mr. Prey!
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Southwind17
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I honestly can't believe you think that's more than one shot: filmed from the front; simultaneously filmed from the left as looking from the front (you can clearly see the camera position in the white wall to the left); simultaneously filmed from the right as looking from the front (evidenced by the beret-wearing melon in the background). Watch it frame by frame - all footage displays exactly the same behaviour. Pay particular attention to the large 'flap' that eventuates on the rear of the melon. It can be clearly made out on both the second side shot and slow-mo shot. One shot, Robert - one shot.
Excuse me? That's exactly what we see in the Z film. The ejecta to the rear is, admittedly, hardly noticeable (not surprising given the quality of the film), but if the shot was from the front then where's the massive amount of ejecta that we'd expect to see to the rear? We most certainly and unquestionably do see a large blow-out (emphasis on 'out') to the front right, though. Massive ejecta to the rear is simply not there, Robert ... simply not there.
Now please account for the large head trauma front right and no apparent rear trauma on the JFK video footage.
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Let me guess, from the sewer?
Scott Sommers
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James Randi altered the Z-film?
Also, and not completely off topic, the JREF forums came into into existence in August of 2001 EXACTLY ONE MONTH BEFORE 9/11! Obviously the forums were debuted ahead of time to be in place to "debunk" the inside job. Connect the dots people!
I, for one, am completely convinced by the 7 year-old's irrefutable evidence that the diver shot JFK and am deeply ashamed that I was brainwashed for so many years into believing that LHO was the sole assassin.
7 has wiped the floor with Robert and exposed him for what he is... a government controlled disinfo agent. Slink back home to your CIA paymasters Mr. Prey!
Is this true? Maybe we need to get the police involved in this deception. Not to mention arresting the real assassins of JFK. You have to admit, that sure was brave of Oswald to take the rap for someone else.
And Robert as a disinfo agent. Who'd have ever guessed?
Robert Prey
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1. Z film alteration.
2. Brains, scalp blown out as evidenced by witnesses, but little blood in that location.
3. Z film a home movie that can't possibly capture everything that happens in a split second.
4. Unknown variables.
If there is snow on the ground in the morning, then it is reasonable to assume that during the night it snowed. We don't need a video that shows snowfall. The evidence is there on the ground. And the evidence for a shot from the front is the large blow-out in the back of K's head, observed by 40 plus on the scene witnesses, including Bobby Hargis who got a his face and uniform l splattered with it.
Tomtomkent
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Robert keeps repeating the z film was altered. He has yet to identify a single frame with a photographic artefact toprove this
As for not seeing everything, how many frames a second do you think the film records robert?
As for not seeing everything, how many frames a second do you think the film records robert?
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
Robert can't address 7forever's devastating refutations of his (Robert's) delusions. 7forever made a hash of Robert's dishonesty.
Tomtomkent
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Robert keeps repeating the z film was altered. He has yet to identify a single frame with a photographic artefact toprove this
As for not seeing everything, how many frames a second do you think the film records robert?
As for not seeing everything, how many frames a second do you think the film records robert?
What's fascinating is the way that when you get a group of CT's together far from providing reinforcements they just turn on one another with more fury than they expend on those who believe the 'official version'. You can apply that to just about every conspiracy theory on this board.
HSienzant
Philosopher
Greer slips up and admits he accelerated after the third shot which is always the last shot for people in fantasy. He sped off after his second turn and right after he fired the fatal shot.
Mr. SPECTER - Do you recollect whether you accelerated before or at the same time or after the third shot?
Mr. GREER - I couldn't really say. Just as soon as I turned my head back from the second shot, right away I accelerated right then. It was a matter of my reflexes to the accelerator.
Mr. SPECTER - Was it at about that time that you heard the third shot?
Mr. GREER - Yes, sir; just as soon as I turned my head.
This testimony is golden and would convict anyone on trial for murder in a heartbeat. He admits to turning twice here but officially said he turned only once. OOPS!
Mr. SPECTER - Do you have an independent recollection at this moment of having heard three shots at that time?
Mr. GREER - I knew that after I heard the second one, that is when I looked over my shoulder, and I was conscious that there was something wrong, because that is when I saw Governor Connally. And when I turned around again, to the best of my recollection there was another one, right immediately after.
The one you fired, you moronic jackass.
From the above, I gather that Greer heard a second shot and turned and saw Governor Connally in some distress: "I knew that after I heard the second one, that is when I looked over my shoulder, and I was conscious that there was something wrong, because that is when I saw Governor Connally."
He says he then turned back to the front and accelerated, he says: "Do you recollect whether you accelerated before or at the same time or after the third shot? Mr. GREER - I couldn't really say. Just as soon as I turned my head back from the second shot, right away I accelerated right then. It was a matter of my reflexes to the accelerator."
And he heard a third shot almost immediately following his turn back to the front: And when I turned around again, to the best of my recollection there was another one, right immediately after.
I see nothing sinister in there.
Now, we both know that Greer was mistaken about turning once. But so what? He forgot turning twice. You expect witnesses to remember everything precisely, and if not, that means they are lying, apparently.
PS: You fail to note that Greer heard a flurry of shots come into the car after the second shot. A funny thing for the driver to mention if he shot the President himself, don't you think? Why do you suppose Greer mentioned that, if he was a part of the conspiracy intent on framing a lone nut shooting from behind, and actually shot the President himself?
As always, conspiracy theorists don't mention - because they can't explain - any testimony, evidence, or facts inconsistent with their theory. You are no exception.
Hank
HSienzant
Philosopher
Hargis drove into the blood splatter. You can see the blood splatter above JFK's head in Z313 (and a large chunk of skull bone rotating in the sun is likewise visible in that frame). That skull fragment visible in the z-film is most likely the Harper fragment, and it can be seen moving up and forward from the skull. I remind you that the Harper fragment was found south of the limo at the time of the head shot. That puts that fragment forward and to the left of the limo - a shot from behind would drive that Harper fragment in that direction. A shot from the driver or from the grassy knoll would not put the fragment forward of the limo.
It is curious you allege Z-film alteration and then say that the z-film couldn't possibly capture everything that happened in a split second. Curiously, it captured more than enough to disprove your back of head exit wound contention. Ergo, you are stuck alleging alteration of the film. But when, how, and why, you cannot begin to document. If the conspirators didn't like what the Z-film revealed, why did they let it see the light of day? Why did they go to the trouble (and expense) of altering the film? Why not just overexpose the film by a factor of 1200 and say "oops"? Or burn it and say the film was damaged in the developing process? Your theories are simply bizarre - we have to conjecture conspirators with too much time on their hands and money to burn to accept Zapruder film alteration.
Your point 4 is hilarious - "4. Unknown variables."
Translated, that means you couldn't think of anything else.
Your point 2 is vague - "2. Brains, scalp blown out as evidenced by witnesses, but little blood in that location."
What location are you referencing? The witnesses in Dealey Plaza saw a large wound in the right side of the head. The blood was mostly on the seat of the limo, and a fragment of skull was found on the floor of the limo. Governor Connally and wife Nellie both spoke of being splattered with blood. I remind you they were both forward of the President, consistent with a shot from behind and consistent with the spatter explosion of blood and brains we see in frame Z313.
And the analogy concerning the snow is fallacious. The snow is on the ground, but is the exit wound in the back of the head? You are simply assuming it is. But that is what you have to prove. All the hard evidence puts it elsewhere, as do numerous witnesses.
We've already seen that numerous witnesses in Dealey Plaza as well as Parkland failed to mention a back of the head wound. For example, Bill Newman mentioned only a wound in the right temple. Malcolm Kilduff mentioned only a wound in the right temple. Dr. Jenkins mentioned a large wound to the right side of the head. None of those men mentioned that the wound was in the back of the head.
We both know you won't begin to rebut any of these points. Because your conspiracy books don't cover these points, because they can't rebut them either.
Hank
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HSienzant
Philosopher
My apologies. I mis-remembered who spoke of a flurry. It was the other Secret Service agent, the one in the front right passenger sear, Roy Kellerman, who spoke of a flurry. I do apologize for mis-remembering this.
Mr. KELLERMAN. ...There was enough for me to verify that the man was hit. So, in the same motion I come right back and grabbed the speaker and said to the driver, "Let's get out of here; we are hit," and grabbed the mike and I said, "Lawson, this is Kellerman,"--this is Lawson, who is in the front car. "We are hit; get us to the hospital immediately." Now, in the seconds that I talked just now, a flurry of shells come into the car. I then looked back and this time Mr. Hill, who was riding on the left front bumper of our followup car, was on the back trunk of that car; the President was sideways down into. the back seat.
HSienzant
Philosopher
And remember that the head moves FORWARD from the instant just before the bullet strike (frame Z312) and the instant after the bullet strike (frame Z313).
That movement forward shows the bullet imparting momentum to the head sufficient to move it forward a few inches. Then, another force acts upon it almost immediately afterward, causing the entire body to move backwards. Like you, I suspect what is actually happening here is a neuromuscular reaction to the brain trauma. But the initial impact of the bullet, within the first 1/18th of a second, moves the head FORWARD.
http://www.kenrahn.com/jfk/issues_and_evidence/zapruder_film/Forward_snap.html
As noted in the page above, Josiah Thompson (a long-time conspiracy theorist whose published book _SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS_ is regarded as one of the best conspiracy books by almost everyone on both sides of the fence) measured the difference and computed JFK's head moved forward approximately three inches.
David Lifton submitted a copy of the Zapruder frames to Nobel Prize winning physicist Richard Feynman and asked him to determine which way the head moved after the bullet impact. Feyman did. He determined it moved forward.
This web page below gives a little bit of further details, but screws up some pertinent info (Costella says "Lifton was dismayed when Feynman ignored all of the frames except the ones that show the President just before and just after the impact of the shot", but anyone who knows anything about Newtonian physics knows those are the only two pertinent frames. Lifton, who was a graduate student in physics when he got involved in studying the assassination, was dismayed that he, Lifton, had made a 'rookie' mistake and had measured starting with frame 314 and had determined the head moved backward after that. Lifton wasn''t dismayed that Feynman had ignored the other frames. Lifton was dismayed that as a graduate student he had failed to measure from before the bullet strike (Frame 312) to immediately after the bullet strike (frame 313).
http://assassinationscience.com/johncostella/jfk/intro/wound.html
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Regnad Kcin
Penultimate Amazing
Regnad Kcin
Penultimate Amazing
And a happy birthday to you!
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