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AE911 Petition Submitted??

cjnewson88

Graduate Poster
cjnewson88
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
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For some wild reason, I read this recent article on AE911Truth website. Half way down, there is a picture, with a description stating:

"AE911Truth supporters Jeff Rische and Ben Collett present Washington Rep. Jim McDermott's staffer, Darcy Nothnagle, with the AE911Truth petition, now signed by over 1600 architects and engineers"

Does this mean the petition has been submitted? Or are they just showing it off..

When did this happen? Does it mean anything? After all these years did they finally feel that 1,600 signatures was enough?

Anyone got anything on this?
 
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Oystein said:
Is there a correct formal procedure to petition Congress? Can anybody here explain? Can't find any such provision on my trusty Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_petition_in_the_United_States
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http://www.ehow.com/how_6551491_petition-congress.html

I think that refers to the verb rather than the noun. I also believe you have to get a congressman to present it.

pe·ti·tion / pəˈtiSHən /
Noun:
A formal written request, typically one signed by many people, appealing to authority with respect to a particular cause.
Verb:
Make or present a formal request to (an authority) with respect to a particular cause.
Click to expand...

I know your English is probably better than mine so I'm not quite sure if you're being sarcastic. :D
 
cjnewson88 said:
For some wild reason, I read this recent article on AE911Truth website. Half way down, there is a picture, with a description stating:

"AE911Truth supporters Jeff Rische and Ben Collett present Washington Rep. Jim McDermott's staffer, Darcy Nothnagle, with the AE911Truth petition, now signed by over 1600 architects and engineers"

Does this mean the petition has been submitted?
Click to expand...


Doubt it. Note that those "presenting" the petition are merely supporters. Seems to me that, if that petition is ever "officially" presented, Gage would be the one to do it...
 
Justin39640 said:
http://www.ehow.com/how_6551491_petition-congress.html

I think that refers to the verb rather than the noun. I also believe you have to get a congressman to present it.



I know your English is probably better than mine so I'm not quite sure if you're being sarcastic. :D
Click to expand...

Thanks.
So apparently, there is no particular formal way to petition Congress. You just grab any member or members you can and do with them whatever you find smart, and they do whatever they want with your petition - or nothing. I read on Wikipedia that apparently there is no obligation for any Congress or any member thereof to act on, reply to or even only listent to petitions. The Fiirst Amendmend merely protects the citizen trying to petition, in other words, you can't suffer negative consequences if you try to petition.

This is all in contrast to the situation here in Germany: Our Constitution not only protects the right to petition the legislature, it also calls on the Federal Parliament to have a permanent Petition Subcommittee. There is a special law that govverns how that subcommittee works, how it is funded, etc. So all petitions have a single point of access, and must be considered.

Of course, you can also try to lobby your MP, but in reality, some portions of society have better access to the political class than others. Having a dedicated subcommittee that is required by law, by the Constitution even, to treat all petitions equally at least formally, introduces a measure of more equality in democracy.
Then again, the impact of those petitions, and their numbers are vast (70 per day, plus/minus) is rather low.
 
Any congresscritter will of course be willing to jeopardize their next re-election bid by appearing to support their insane ideas. They might give it a little bit of behind closed doors lip service to try and placate them a bit but that's about as far as it will ever go.
 
Oystein said:
Thanks.
So apparently, there is no particular formal way to petition Congress. You just grab any member or members you can and do with them whatever you find smart, and they do whatever they want with your petition - or nothing. I read on Wikipedia that apparently there is no obligation for any Congress or any member thereof to act on, reply to or even only listent to petitions. The Fiirst Amendmend merely protects the citizen trying to petition, in other words, you can't suffer negative consequences if you try to petition.

This is all in contrast to the situation here in Germany: Our Constitution not only protects the right to petition the legislature, it also calls on the Federal Parliament to have a permanent Petition Subcommittee. There is a special law that govverns how that subcommittee works, how it is funded, etc. So all petitions have a single point of access, and must be considered.

Of course, you can also try to lobby your MP, but in reality, some portions of society have better access to the political class than others. Having a dedicated subcommittee that is required by law, by the Constitution even, to treat all petitions equally at least formally, introduces a measure of more equality in democracy.
Then again, the impact of those petitions, and their numbers are vast (70 per day, plus/minus) is rather low.
Click to expand...

Yup! Basically, your Congressman's door is supposed to be open if you got a problem. It's up to him to decide if it's actionable.

For the House it goes by districts. I believe I'd have to go to this guy to get a ball rolling here. http://www.house.gov/htbin/findrep?ZIP=11758

ETA: The staffers are there to help filter the bull ****. (cough cough)
 
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Justin39640 said:
Yup! Basically, your Congressman's door is supposed to be open if you got a problem. It's up to him to decide if it's actionable.

For the House it goes by districts. I believe I'd have to go to this guy to get a ball rolling here. http://www.house.gov/htbin/findrep?ZIP=11758

ETA: The staffers are there to help filter the bull ****. (cough cough)
Click to expand...

This has implications on my criticism of AE911T. So far, I had believed that there is some formal way to dump their stupid "Petition" onto Congress such that it could be said "today, on the xxth day of mmmm, 201z, we, AE911T, delivered our mighty petition to THE Congress". But that expectation was erroneous.
What do they really mean when the text starts off with "TO THE MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND OF THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA"? Do they assume that anyone could print out the list of signers at any time, go to their respective Rep. or Senator, and bug them with the printout? That's what Jeff Rische and Ben Collett did with Washington Rep. Jim McDermott. So the question is: Who else has so far tried to get their Rep.'s attention, and what did happen? Does Gage know? Does Gage care?
 
I also presumed that there would be a formal mechanism.

Just for interest there are formal mechanisms in Australia at both State and Federal levels. Federal Parliament has two, one for each house of the Parliament.

For the Senate: http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/work/petitions/index.htm For the House of Representatives: http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committee/petitions/petitions.htm
Naturally the informal mechanisms of presenting it to a Member or Senator exist same as has been described for the US.

The arrangements at state level for my home state of New South Wales are that the petition can be given to a Member but it is mandatory for the Member to formally present it to the House. And it must be dealt with by the house

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/publications.nsf/key/FactSheetNo16 If signed by more than 10,000 persons it gets priority treatment:
...The subject matter of a petition which has been signed by 10,000 or more persons is set down as an order of the day for discussion by the House.
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Oystein said:
This has implications on my criticism of AE911T. So far, I had believed that there is some formal way to dump their stupid "Petition" onto Congress such that it could be said "today, on the xxth day of mmmm, 201z, we, AE911T, delivered our mighty petition to THE Congress". But that expectation was erroneous.
What do they really mean when the text starts off with "TO THE MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND OF THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA"? Do they assume that anyone could print out the list of signers at any time, go to their respective Rep. or Senator, and bug them with the printout? That's what Jeff Rische and Ben Collett did with Washington Rep. Jim McDermott. So the question is: Who else has so far tried to get their Rep.'s attention, and what did happen? Does Gage know? Does Gage care?
Click to expand...

Yes, I think that's what happens. AE911T urges their supporters to bug Congressmen / politicians, and then random people ambush their Congressmen at meet'n'greets.

Who is Mark Phillips? (He's not on AE911Truth's Form 990 as a member of staff.) AE911T have uploaded his videos on this subject:

http://www.youtube.com/ae911truth#p/search/0/lfDdHpdvf3o

http://www.youtube.com/ae911truth#p/search/0/j1MiJuYJuEU

You can see that the politicians give the standard reply to all their constituents. But AE911T calls this "Mr/Ms X meets with AE911T". If they were truthful they would call them "AE911T groupie ambushes Mr/MsX".
 
Many US congressmen will meet constituents in person. It may take a long time to get a meeting though obviously. And you are free to present any petition you like in person, or send it in through other means. And they are free to totally ignore it, which I'm sure will happen to this one. Congressmen or their staffers will be polite and hear you out. This seems to have given truthers false hope that they are thought of as anything but wack jobs by their representatives.

The whole strategy of presenting a petition signed by thousands of people from all over the world to a US Congressman or Senator in the hope of persuading them to respond in some way is completely flawed of course. If the petition is from CONSTITUENTS of that particular Congressman or Senator, you might have more luck. Try calling a Congressman other than yours about a concern you have and see how far you get after they ask you where you live and realize they don't represent you.

But a petition is the wrong way to go regardless. The most effective way of getting their attention is by each individual calling and writing.
 
Oystein said:
This has implications on my criticism of AE911T. So far, I had believed that there is some formal way to dump their stupid "Petition" onto Congress such that it could be said "today, on the xxth day of mmmm, 201z, we, AE911T, delivered our mighty petition to THE Congress". But that expectation was erroneous.
What do they really mean when the text starts off with "TO THE MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND OF THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA"? Do they assume that anyone could print out the list of signers at any time, go to their respective Rep. or Senator, and bug them with the printout? That's what Jeff Rische and Ben Collett did with Washington Rep. Jim McDermott. So the question is: Who else has so far tried to get their Rep.'s attention, and what did happen? Does Gage know? Does Gage care?
Click to expand...

Well there's this gem from 2007 where some Minnesota Twoofers confronted Al Frankin.
 
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