Vote fraud in Maine?

Oliver said:
Yep, you're right.
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I am. The report clearly is Just Asking Questions, and leaving any conclusion up to the viewer. You were wrong when you said that this report "actually says it's fraud". You can't play it both ways--leaving it up to the viewer to decide and actually making a claim.

1. Reporting the false results intentionally.
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Any proof that that happened?

2. Letting Delegates decide who they choose no matter what the people voted. No fraud.
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Correct. Those are the rules in Maine. Other states (including Missouri) have similar rules.

3. Letting the GOP in Maine postpone voting in a district for a week but refusing to let those votes be count afterwards. No fraud.
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So are you claiming that this is fraud?

(Again, it's tough to have a dialogue with these intellectually dishonest rhetorical techniques. I assume here you're sarcastically stating that all of these things are in fact fraud, but you seem unwilling to say so explicitly.)

Wouldn't you be crying fraud if they counted the votes contrary to the state rules? Especially if the new count result went against Ron Paul?

4. Publishing blank results of two districts showing no vote at all. No fraud.
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I doubt very much there is any rule about how the results are published on the GOP website and when.

5. Declaring a very close win although 15% aren't reported yet. No fraud.
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How is it fraud? It's a non-binding straw poll. Is there a rule about declaring a winner? What does it even mean to declare a winner when no delegates (or anything else) are awarded?

At any rate, if these things are provable, I assume Fox will initiate a lawsuit? Oh wait--nope--they're just asking questions and not trying to imply or insinuate anything, just like madfoot.

This is the sort of dishonest rhetoric that belongs in the CT subforums.
 
It's gonna suck so hard for Romney if he still loses this one. They'll wish he hadn't won it in the first place.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
About the most honest statement in this report is that it's "a reality check you won't see anywhere else"!

I hear a lot of JAQing off in this report. I hear a strong dislike of non-binding straw polls (which is not fraud--and is nothing unique to Maine). I hear a lot of grousing about the state committee's rules wrt the date of the straw poll. Then a bunch of CT stuff about when some votes were posted on the GOP website and so on.

But in fact you're wrong, Oliver. In the report, the guy asks repeatedly whether or not this is fraud, and concludes, "Well you can make up your own mind on that." As with madfoot, he's not willing to explicitly make the claim of fraud.

He says it's a "disaster for the Republican Party" (sounds like opinion to me--reasonable minds could disagree). The report ends with him saying that if the Maine GOP doesn't change its rules (require a public reading of all the votes, for example), it might succeed in keeping Romney as the winner of the straw poll but will lose support for him in the long run (again, this is opinion, and it presumes that the Maine GOP is conspiring to support Romney).

This "reality check" employs some of the same intellectually dishonest rhetorical techniques madfoot is using.
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I like how you're allowed to "read between the lines" in my posts, but I'm not allowed to do it to you. You're a damned hypocrite.
 
Evidence is mounting that Mitt Romney's 194-vote victory over Ron Paul was prematurely announced, if not totally wrong. Washington County canceled their caucus on Saturday on account of three inches of snow (hardly a blizzard by Maine standards), and other towns that scheduled their caucuses for this week have been left out of the vote count. Now, it looks like caucuses that did take place before Feb. 11 have also been left out of final tally.

As the full extent of the chaos unfolds, sources close to the Paul campaign tell Business Insider that it is looking increasingly like Romney's team might have a hand in denying Paul votes, noting that Romney has some admirably ruthless operatives on his side and a powerful incentive to avoid a fifth caucus loss this month.

According to the Paul campaign, the Maine Republican Party is severely under-reporting Paul's results — and Romney isn't getting the same treatment. For example, nearly all the towns in Waldo County — a Ron Paul stronghold – held their caucuses on Feb. 4, but the state GOP reported no results for those towns. In Waterville, a college town in Central Maine, results were reported but not included in the party vote count. Paul beat Romney 21-5 there, according to the Kennebec County GOP.

"It's too common," senior advisor Doug Wead told Business Insider. "If it was chaos, we would expect strong Romney counties to be unreported, and that's not what's happening."

The Maine Republican Party won't decide which votes it will count until the executive committee meets next month. But Wead points out that even if Mitt Romney holds on to his slim lead, it will be a Pyrrhic victory.
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http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-maine-caucuses-gop-takeover-2012-2

This is really extraordinary. I promise I'm not JAQing off - I'm a skeptic - but nearly half of the precints in Maine weren't counted in the official tally. If it's not corruption, then the state party is astonishingly inept. I don't think it's fair to call me crazy for saying it's possible that the Maine GOP is corrupt.
 
Webster maintains that Paul should call it quits in Maine, saying that achieving a 200-vote margin of victory in Washington County — where only 113 voters cast ballots in the 2008 GOP race — “isn’t humanly possible.”
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Let me put it this way; if Ron Paul does win based on Washington County, then there might be a case for vote fraud.
 
All this over Maine? The state with novelty shops that steal your soul and reincarnation graveyards?
 
Brainster said:
Let me put it this way; if Ron Paul does win based on Washington County, then there might be a case for vote fraud.
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Why? He's behind only 200 votes, and this isn't out of line with results Paul got in other states.
 
madfoot said:
http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-maine-caucuses-gop-takeover-2012-2

This is really extraordinary. I promise I'm not JAQing off - I'm a skeptic - but nearly half of the precints in Maine weren't counted in the official tally. If it's not corruption, then the state party is astonishingly inept. I don't think it's fair to call me crazy for saying it's possible that the Maine GOP is corrupt.
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Have you met many local low level politicos? The latter is far more likely than the former.
 
It's pretty obvious these guys are trying to swing it in favor Romney and aren't interested in having a decent process.
 
madfoot said:
I like how you're allowed to "read between the lines" in my posts, but I'm not allowed to do it to you. You're a damned hypocrite.
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Bull.

I didn't "read between the lines". Look at your thread title. Your claim that you're not making a claim is dishonest.

[ETA: Also when did I accuse you of reading between the lines of my posts or saying you're not allowed to do something?]

You're simply JAQing off.
 
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Travis said:
All this over Maine? The state with novelty shops that steal your soul and reincarnation graveyards?
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All this over a non-binding straw poll in Maine!

And again, they'd be crying fraud if the state committee had broken the rules by allowing votes cast on a different day to be counted.
 
Peephole said:
Why? He's behind only 200 votes, and this isn't out of line with results Paul got in other states.
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Because there were only 113 votes cast in Washington County. What Brainster was saying is that if that county somehow overcomes Paul's 200 vote deficit, then there would be a case for fraud.
 
Maddow had a follow up to the issue. Seriously, one must be crazy to think that's just fine - or not fraudulent at all whatsoever...


And I might add that I give a **** about Maine:
Forget about the voters, only the delegates count. Nothing else.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
Because there were only 113 votes cast in Washington County. What Brainster was saying is that if that county somehow overcomes Paul's 200 vote deficit, then there would be a case for fraud.
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So? There's 32,856 people living in that county.
 
Peephole said:
So? There's 32,856 people living in that county.
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There are 1.3 million people living in Maine. Around 6,000 out of those 1.3 million participated in this year's Republican caucus. If the same percentage show up in Washington County, that would be around 150 people. I think that it's safe to say that the odds of one candidate beating another candidate by 113 votes out of 150 in a 4-way contest is pretty small.
 
TellyKNeasuss said:
There are 1.3 million people living in Maine. Around 6,000 out of those 1.3 million participated in this year's Republican caucus. If the same percentage show up in Washington County, that would be around 150 people. I think that it's safe to say that the odds of one candidate beating another candidate by 113 votes out of 150 in a 4-way contest is pretty small.
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Not if you count the 20 something places where allegedly nobody voted at all...
Waldo County mostly missing from official Maine GOP results ...

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