Merged "Iron-rich spheres" - scienctific explanation?

[Myriad]

Molten is when something starts to loose its shape under force of gravity. That lightweight steel framework you posted was technically molten when it bent like that.

Molten barn:

 

[Edx]

Molten barn:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/130124f3be5954124f.jpg[/qimg]

This is going to be a running joke I can see

 

[beachnut]

Molten barn:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/130124f3be5954124f.jpg

Melted my barn with thermite! Or was it the Judy Wood Insane Beam of Doom? Melted wood.

 

[beachnut]

Great. I consider doing a short personal video where I "melt" steel with my arse. No, not by farting extremly hot gasses. Simply by sitting on it and letting gravity do the rest.

Do I have to?

Thus, a rock melted the steel in my car when I ran over it. It also set off the air bags. Did the rock use thermite?

Lead vaporizes at 1100F. Why can't the 911 truth find evidence?

I don't understand it. Here we have thermite, the thermite did not melt the steel, it fused the steel together. Where are WTC columum fused togegther. Where is the thermite proof?

911 truth sees bent steel, and say melted steel; true because they said so. New visual science, using the Fetzer Algorithm.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/onemeridiansag.jpg
Melted steel due to office fire, according to the ergo definition of melted steel.

 

[Sunstealer]

Steel does not go from solid to liquid instantly.

Really I never knew that. I wish they'd taught me that when I was doing my degree in metallurgy. Perhaps they should have made me learn this diagram.

http://practicalmaintenance.net/?p=1315

What's that I see? What does the "L" stand for in these diagrams? Could it possible be "liquid" Mmm wow the phase diagram is showing liquid present with solid (either austenite or delta ferrite) over a temperature range before the material is in a fully liquid state. Who would have known. Thanks. Perhaps you could go and see your grandmother and teach her to suck eggs.

First it looses its shape. This is called slumping and that is what we see in the photo, not compression.

So perhaps you can teach Ergo the error of his ways and show him that the material has not melted.

The reason for such large plastic deformation seen is due to high strain rate on a steel that can only be experiencing temperatures above the steel's recrystallisation temperature. These mechanisms are well understood.

Are you now going to lecture using dynamic and static recovery, nucleation, recrystallisation, 0.5Tm, growth, strain rate, dislocations and slip-planes etc to show how temperature is a major factor in allowing large deformations in steel? Perhaps you should tell us about hot working and how it's relevant to these photos.

 

[chrismohr]

It is a given that the elevator shafts were open on the floors where the planes hit but we are talking about the chimney effect noted in the letter. The elevator shafts above the floors where the planes hit were not breached. There was nowhere for the smoke and fire to exit so could be no chimney effect.

You failed to figure out the obvious. The smoke and fire went up thru the air ducts which open on every floor.

Chris7,
A question from an English major here: Were the elevator shafts airtight? I don't want to plow through the whole NIST Report yet again but I don't believe they were. It would seem that since tens of thousands of people rode those elevators daily, they'd have to be ventilated somehow. And if they were ventilated, then could smoke have risen through the shafts and out through the ducts on floors above the crash site? I think I agree that there was no smoke coming straight up and out like a chimney through a big opening at the top of the towers. Just wondering: could the "chimney effect" refer to smoke rising and escaping through the ventilation? Does anyone have a clear idea what Rich Lee was talking about with the chimney effect? And BTW I'll tell everyone right now I have no idea if I am right or wrong here.

 

[Sunstealer]

Great photos. What is the source of those photos? What kind of building and what was in it?

Molten is when something starts to loose its shape under force of gravity. That lightweight steel framework you posted was technically molten when it bent like that.

No it's not.

molten
[mohl-tn]   Example Sentences Origin
mol·ten
   [mohl-tn] Show IPA
verb
1.
a past participle of melt.
adjective
2.
liquefied by heat; in a state of fusion; melted: molten lead.
3.
produced by melting and casting: a molten image.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/molten

You have just proven that the use of the word molten is misunderstood. Therefore you cannot use eye-witnesses who claim "molten steel" are actually seeing liquid steel because they are most likely doing exactly what you have done and misatribute the word.

You now know why I never use the word and always use the word liquid instead. It can't be misinterpreted.

You have just debunked yourself with regard to molten steel being observed at ground zero. Well done! Classic.

 

[Fly Poster]

Molten is when something starts to loose its shape under force of gravity. That lightweight steel framework you posted was technically molten when it bent like that.

If ever you are in the UK, Suffolk has some quaint villages worth visiting with lovely molten houses.

 

[Sunstealer]

Damn these molten buildings are everywhere.

 

[Edx]

You have just proven that the use of the word molten is misunderstood. Therefore you cannot use eye-witnesses who claim "molten steel" are actually seeing liquid steel because they are most likely doing exactly what you have done and misatribute the word.

Well actually that is easily debunked since its really easy to find hundreds of other times people have said there was melted steel in other fires.

 

[beachnut]

Great photos. What is the source of those photos? What kind of building and what was in it?

Molten is when something starts to loose its shape under force of gravity. That lightweight steel framework you posted was technically molten when it bent like that.

... office fire, produces molten steel. That debunks your thermite claims.
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/woodbeambentsteel-full.jpg
An office fire can do this, makes steel fail. You agree.

Office fires can destroy the strength of steel. Fire destroyed the WTC.

Can burning lead based paints cause vaporized lead? Yes (1100F - 800F)
Can lead compounds found in the WTC create vaporized lead at temperates below the melting point of steel? Yes

Can't do basic research, 911 truth makes up lies based on googled values of elements. You make up stuff as you go, based on ignorance; and you don't know it.

 

[DaveThomasNMSR]

Dave,
Apparently, Ron did not speak to Rich Lee. He got a response from Stephen Kennedy.
Since Ron can't post here would you ask him to give you the communication that led to this response.

So, you're not satisfied with R.J. Lee's answer to Wieck's question, and now you want to go after the question itself.

Gee, isn't the answer to a question more important than subtle nuances about how it was posed?

Didn't you have anything better to do on the night of Valentine's Day?

Guess not.

 

[Oystein]

Chris7,
A question from an English major here: Were the elevator shafts airtight? I don't want to plow through the whole NIST Report yet again but I don't believe they were. It would seem that since tens of thousands of people rode those elevators daily, they'd have to be ventilated somehow.

You don't even have to think about passengers and their need to breathe.

Elevator cars use the elevator shafts. Much like pistons. There isn't very much room between the car and the wall. If the shaft was airtight above the car, the car would compress it going up, and force it downbeween car and wall at a very high wind speed. This doesn't happen. The air that the car pushes up finds exits on every floor and on top, and fresh air rushes in below the car. It is better for the passengers and the car if the shaft is NOT airtight.

C7 made that claim up. He provided no evidence that elevator shafts are airtight. Common sense demands that they are not.

Does anyone have a clear idea what Rich Lee was talking about with the chimney effect? And BTW I'll tell everyone right now I have no idea if I am right or wrong here.

Chimney effect is just a form a strong, directed convection. it happens when hot air is allowed to rise some vertical among cooler air. You can have a chimney effect in a closed system. I believe the George Foreman cooking thingy uses the chimney effect in a closed system.

However, the elevator shafts weren't a closed system. They were wide open at the fire floors (remember: A plain punched a nice hole in the sides of the building), allowing air to either enter or leave the shafts. Fires popped out windows higher up, in fact trapped people broke windows, providing more circulation and ventilation.

There can't be any serious doubt that the shafts made for a very strong chimney effect. I wouldn't guess literally hurricane force winds, but what do I know? Strong winds, that's for sure!

 

[sheeplesnshills]

Molten is when something starts to loose its shape under force of gravity. .

Yet again Chris7 you prove that twoofers do get dumber over time.........

Its onto ignore for you as you are clearly ineducable.

 

[Christopher7]

Dave,
Apparently, Ron did not speak to Rich Lee. He got a response from Stephen Kennedy.
Since Ron can't post here would you ask him to give you the communication that led to this response.

So, you're not satisfied with R.J. Lee's answer to Wieck's question, and now you want to go after the question itself.

I asked for the communication that led to the response but you sidestepped that. How did Ron get Stephen's contact info? Are they friends?

I am not satisfied that the letter was written by RJ Lee. Stephen Kennedy said that he and Rich would be available to talk. Did Ron speak to RJ Lee when he had the chance?

 

[GlennB]

Molten is when something starts to loose its shape under force of gravity. That lightweight steel framework you posted was technically molten when it bent like that.

If that is true, then steel becomes molten at much lower temperatures than its melting point.

I can bend a stick of spaghetti under the force of gravity. Or a bit of steel rebar, through brute force (did that very thing earlier today).

Molten. Melt. Get it?

If you agree to this then I'd happily agree with Truther claims that "there was molten steel at GZ". Trouble is, we'd then have to agree on how soft 'molten' needs to be to earn that description.

Are you sure you want to stick with your claim?

 

[Christopher7]

It is a given that the elevator shafts were open on the floors where the planes hit but we are talking about the chimney effect noted in the letter. The elevator shafts above the floors where the planes hit were not breached. There was nowhere for the smoke and fire to exit so could be no chimney effect.

You failed to figure out the obvious. The smoke and fire went up thru the air ducts which open on every floor.

Chris7,
A question from an English major here: Were the elevator shafts airtight?

They were hermetically sealed. I don't have the quotes handy but there were dampers that worked automatically to cut off the shafts in case of fire. I don't know exactly how they worked but the designers took precautions to prevent the elevator shafts from becoming chimneys.

they'd have to be ventilated somehow.

The air would be refreshed every time the doors opened.

Does anyone have a clear idea what Rich Lee was talking about with the chimney effect?

The letter said hurricane force winds. A chimney takes air in at the bottom and expels it at the top so the inference is that air was taken in well below the impact zone and fed the fires thru the breach in the elevator shafts on the impact floors.

 

[Edx]

I asked for the communication that led to the response but you sidestepped that. How did Ron get Stephen's contact info? Are they friends?

I am not satisfied that the letter was written by RJ Lee. Stephen Kennedy said that he and Rich would be available to talk. Did Ron speak to RJ Lee when he had the chance?

Why wont you just contact them yourself????

http://www.rjlg.com/contact-us.aspx

 

[beachnut]

...

The air would be refreshed every time the doors opened.

...

Wow, it is? ... the elevators are ventilated, you have not looked up anything. All your knowledge is made up, opinions. Source your claims.

You don't know lead vaporizes at 800 to 1100 F. In an office fire you don't know lead compounds can react with other elements to form vaporized lead at temperatures below the melting point of steel.
Your lack of knowledge with lead is the same for iron rich spheres.

 

[DGM]

They were hermetically sealed. I don't have the quotes handy

You got this from "Loose Change". I think your losing it.