Ever wonder why the Tea Party hates building green?

[Trakar]

Ah, so now you're retracting your claim of tax cuts and blaming the fiscal mess on failure to raise tax rates?

No, the majority of California's tax propositions that I mentioned deal directly with tax cuts, there are some, however, that contribute to the long-term standing of the issue by unduly restricting the ability to properly deal with and respond to fluctuations in economic conditions and fiscal obligations.

 

[WildCat]

No, the majority of California's tax propositions that I mentioned deal directly with tax cuts, there are some, however, that contribute to the long-term standing of the issue by unduly restricting the ability to properly deal with and respond to fluctuations in economic conditions and fiscal obligations.

Californians like to vote for more government ponies, they don't like to pay for them. Which is why I hope no federal tax dollars are ever earmarked for the ridiculous and endless money pit known as HSR.

If California wants it, California should pay for it.

 

[eeyore1954]

Which says nothing about tax cuts on the wealthy.



http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8025064&postcount=147

to begin with, we can cover more if there is still any further exploration interest after these are addressed.

For any who are hard of reading that starts with state corporate tax rates over the last 40 or so years. This isn't so much an issue of massive cuts but merely depressed and repressed rates.

But starting with prop 13 we get into "Over-zealous and unnecessary tax cuts for those who didn't need them mostly."

prop 13 property tax rollback and super-majority legislation requirement

prop 5 gift tax elimination

prop 6 inheritance tax elimination

prop 7 indexing tax to inflation rate

prop 62 requiring 2/3 popular vote to approve raising local special taxes, 2/3 local government vote and popular majority vote to raise local general taxes

prop163 repealing snack tax

It is best to start with this history of public propositions as it is this process which fosters and demonstrates most clearly that misguided concept that all taxes are bad, and the delusion that all tax cuts are good and benefit people and the economy.

Propostions 5 and 6 have given breaks to "those who didn't need them" Any idea how much tax revenue was lost from propositions 5 and 6. Federal collections of estate and gift tax have typically been a little over 1%. I doubt if these amounted to much certainly not enough to be a factor in why California is broke.

 

[Muldur]

There's nothing magic about infrastructure investments. They aren't guaranteed to have positive returns. Especially on projects with massive cost overruns and delays, which we've already seen. And probably not the last of either if this continues to go forward.

History tells us that large-scale infrastructure improvements invariably DO have positive effects. The works of the WPA (among other gov't infrastructure spending programs) made movement of people and goods faster and more efficient, brought electricity to vast parts of the nation that didn't have it before, built power plants/dams that to this day supply vast amounts of badly needed energy, etc.

 

[mhaze]

History tells us that large-scale infrastructure improvements invariably DO have positive effects. The works of the WPA (among other gov't infrastructure spending programs) made movement of people and goods faster and more efficient, brought electricity to vast parts of the nation that didn't have it before, built power plants/dams that to this day supply vast amounts of badly needed energy, etc.

No history does not tell us that. History tells us that most large scale projects were designed and analysed up front for positive effects and/or profitability, and then reasonably so, built.

There is another history, of projects where this was not the case, which were never built, half built, or built, and which remain total boondoggles.

 

[WildCat]

History tells us that large-scale infrastructure improvements

But the question is: Is this an improvement?

 

[TimCallahan]

HuH? Starting to sound like another 'do my work for me' deal.....

Sorry, but FYI, it's all online.

With all due respect, the onus of proof is on the one making the assertion. What you are proposing is that you make an, as yet, unsupported assertion, and it's my duty to provide the evidence of your argument for you. That's absolute nonsense. In any case, if you actually have such evidence, you should be eager to share it.

 

[mhaze]

Is HSR somehow synonymous with "Green"? I would think advocates of the two would be separate groups, with some amount of overlap.

Around here rail gets shot down pretty regular allow some has been pushed through (dallas - houston - san antonio -austin).

Seems to me like it's always been a big money special interest lobby. Maybe they just try to pull on the "green" fear buttons for added support?

 

[Trakar]

Propostions 5 and 6 have given breaks to "those who didn't need them" Any idea how much tax revenue was lost from propositions 5 and 6. Federal collections of estate and gift tax have typically been a little over 1%. I doubt if these amounted to much certainly not enough to be a factor in why California is broke.

It is the accumulation of straw that broke the camel's back, not any particular one or bundle.

 

[Trakar]

Is HSR somehow synonymous with "Green"? I would think advocates of the two would be separate groups, with some amount of overlap...

Sounds about right to me, I wouldn't even consider the overlap to be particularly large for HSR. More traditional rail, is certainly a keystone of element of mass transit (particularly light rail) and efficient cargo shipment, but it is merely one viable method of addressing a particular set of problems.

 

[Nosi]

But that wouldn't be green because it doesn't have the phrase "rail" in it. Maybe you could paint the cars green.

Yeah. That'd work.

The radios will be singing "Chooo chooo chooo"

 

[Nosi]

Speaking as a "good white Christian conservative Canadian" (4 out of 5 ain't bad?), no it isn't.

And large numbers of my US counterparts feel the same way. Hence the ongoing search for a viable "Not-Romney" nominee.

Not-Romney involves Santorum with a Google problem, Newt Gingrich who has wife problems, and last but definitely not least Ron Paul with a 'Prison Planet' in his pocket.

 

[Nosi]

So, Mhaze, am I going to get an answer to these questions?

I will give you an answer. The private sector wants installed which will increase their profit margins and reduce their bills. Green solutions can meet these needs. Fleets of hybrid gas/electric cars reduce fuel bills. Solar takes bites out of electric bills if applied properly. Refurbished can be less costly to create than new.

 

[Ziggurat]

History tells us that large-scale infrastructure improvements invariably DO have positive effects.

Having a positive effect and having a positive return on investment are not the same. And no, history does not tell us that all large-scale infrastructures improvements have positive returns on investment. China is even now facing a crisis with their own high-speed rail project, for example. It's turning into a fiscal disaster.

 

[mhaze]

I will give you an answer. The private sector wants installed which will increase their profit margins and reduce their bills. Green solutions can meet these needs. Fleets of hybrid gas/electric cars reduce fuel bills. Solar takes bites out of electric bills if applied properly. Refurbished can be less costly to create than new.

I'm glad that you've answered questions for me from Private-Dectective-Marlow-AKA-Tim_Callahan. Solar increases net electric costs, hybrid cars never show a net profit after investment cost is considered, and HSR...oh, we're talking about that one.

 

[Trakar]

I'm glad that you've answered questions for me from Private-Dectective-Marlow-AKA-Tim_Callahan. Solar increases net electric costs, hybrid cars never show a net profit after investment cost is considered, and HSR...oh, we're talking about that one.

Got support? At least a logical, reasoned argument if not supporting evidences.

 

[mhaze]

Got support? At least a logical, reasoned argument if not supporting evidences.

Hey, no problem!

Prima sapientiae clavis definitur, assidua scilicet seu frequens googleio

 

[BenBurch]

Hey, no problem!

Prima sapientiae clavis definitur, assidua scilicet seu frequens googleio

Abusing Abelard isn't an argument...

 

[TimCallahan]

Hey, no problem!

Prima sapientiae clavis definitur, assidua scilicet seu frequens googleio

Prima sapientiae clavis definitur, assidua scilicet seu frequens interrogatio

"Constant and frequent questioning is the first key to wisdom." That's the qote from Abelard. So, in your paraphrase you are saying constant and frequent Googling is the first key to wisdom.

As usual, this is the dodge you use when others ask you what your evidence i is for your assertions. Here's the story: We want to know specifically what sources you are using. I'm sure if I google the subject on which you speak, I can find varying views, many of which will contradict yours.

Again: You've made assertions. It's not up to the rest of us to ferret out your sources. It's up to you to back up what you assert. So far, requesting that from you only elicits sneering.

 

[TimCallahan]

I'm glad that you've answered questions for me from Private-Dectective-Marlow-AKA-Tim_Callahan. Solar increases net electric costs, hybrid cars never show a net profit after investment cost is considered, and HSR...oh, we're talking about that one.

According to this site, Toyota and Honda make a profit of $3,100.00 on each hybrid they sell. This site says the same thing, as does this one.