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A first-hand account of tonight's demonstration in Athens

Okay, what's so surprising about people cheating on their taxes?

I don't; I'd get caught in a heartbeat. But there are so many others who can and do, and those responsible for collection ought to be taking this into account right from the start. Simplifying matters minimizes some of this, but will not eliminate it.

My grandmother, who lived through Prohibition, once mentioned that during her "flapper" days, there were people who would ordinarily not have touched a drink, but once it because illegal, they were the first to hit up the speakeasies simply because it was illegal. Why don't officials get this and plan ahead for it?
 
I read in this thread that the Greek government was elected 2.5 years ago on the promise of modest benefit increases (presumably for government workers). Considering the financial situation, wouldn't the best thing 2.5 years ago for the Greek economy have been sharp benefit decreases?

So now it seems the Greek people want to vote again instead of having the current batch of politicians make the choices. Suppose that happened. And then in the campaign, one batch of Greek politicians said "We won't cut your benefits" and another batch of Greek politicians said "We'll cut your benefits sharply." Who's going to win? My guess is the former. And then they get in won't cut benefits sharply. Then what happens? Unless the laws of arithmetic change, Greece is still in trouble.

I'm reminded of a joke by a comedian once. He was talking about people that marry a person, then divorce them, then marry them again. He said that's like opening the refrigerator and taking a drink of milk and saying "Ugh, that's sour. I'll put it back. Maybe it'll be fresh tomorrow." Things were bad 2.5 years ago and they're worse now and they'll be worse yet in the future unless something is done to fix it. And from my admittedly distant perspective I get the impression that things simply can't be fixed without big cuts.
 
The United States is not that far behind Greece in the race towards financial oblivion.

Imagine what would happen if our debt were called in...
 
Just out of curiosity I wonder what would happen if the police simply weren't there or didn't go out. What would the crowds of people do?
 
Roadtoad said:
Okay, what's so surprising about people cheating on their taxes?
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Read my links. The paper by the Greek academics estimates something like 60% of the professional middle class are actively under-reporting their tax. We're not talking about a few pence here, mate.

I'm willing to bet that quite a few of the people demonstrating would fall into aforementioned group. [/idle speculation]
 
Number Six said:
Just out of curiosity I wonder what would happen if the police simply weren't there or didn't go out. What would the crowds of people do?
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You might actually get the rioting it appeared that some of those police officers were trying to incite, which they were there to prevent.
 
Architect said:
Read my links. The paper by the Greek academics estimates something like 60% of the professional middle class are actively under-reporting their tax. We're not talking about a few pence here, mate.

I'm willing to bet that quite a few of the people demonstrating would fall into aforementioned group. [/idle speculation]
Click to expand...

I did read your links. I'm saying it's not surprising. It happens here in the US all the time, and in part simply because certain people can. I've never made enough to do that.

It would not surprise me if the demonstrators were made up of a number of people who cheated on their taxes. Nor does it surprise me that a number of those on the streets are elderly, students, unemployed, what have you.

The only shocker in this is that it hasn't happened earlier. Or that no one has said to the cheats, "This is what it comes down to when you don't kick in your fair share."

The rich know they're being watched. So they get their ducks in a row. Can't say the same for the middle class.
 
WildCat said:
How does that happen? Describe the procedure in which US government debt can be "called in".
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The rest of the world could stop purchasing our new IOUs and stop extending us additional credit. The effect on world markets would be staggering. I don't know if we would recover.

Threatening the US with that scenario, China and other major lenders to the US could exercise a great deal of power if they chose. The concessions that they could wring out of the US government wouldn't stave off collapse for long, but long enough for an administration. The US would shout defiantly while obeying.

The US is more of an aging, hollow oak that it pretends to be.
 
For years and years, Greece financed its massive public spending by incontinent borrowing. This was done by the politicians -- but with the full consent of the people who elected them to continue precisely this policy, indeed with riots and strikes and threats against any government that dared to try and change it. So how can the people now blame the government for simply noting that they cannot borrow any more? If the Greeks didn't want to be "slaves of the Germans", perhaps they shouldn't have borrowed mind-boggling amounts of money from them. I guess it all goes to show Thatcher was right: the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
 
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Roadtoad said:
We're probably agreed on a lot more than you realize.

I remain convinced that tax laws should be as simple as possible. You won't stop the cheating, but you'll do a hell of a lot to reduce the excuses.
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Sibhse a tha og agus saor
Stad mas cur sibh ainm ri paipear
Is cum a mach suil 'son nan daoine mora
An saoghal fuar tha ag adhradh airgead
O cho meallt is a tha an saoghal

Translations on request.
 
Pardalis said:
OK, I guess spending time in prison is a form of austerity living.
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The Greek police seem to be going out of their way not to arrest the people destroying property, so I doubt they need to worry about going to prison.
 
Weird Science said:
For years and years, Greece financed its massive public spending by incontinent borrowing. This was done by the politicians -- but with the full consent of the people who elected them to continue precisely this policy, indeed with riots and strikes and threats against any government that dared to try and change it. So how can the people now blame the government for simply noting that they cannot borrow any more? If the Greeks didn't want to be "slaves of the Germans", perhaps they shouldn't have borrowed mind-boggling amounts of money from them. I guess it all goes to show Thatcher was right: the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Click to expand...


For years and years, the US financed its massive public spending by incontinent borrowing. This was done by the politicians -- but with the full consent of the people who elected them to continue precisely this policy, indeed with riots and strikes and threats against any government that dared to try and change it. So how can the people now blame the government for simply noting that they cannot borrow any more? If the Americans didn't want to be "slaves of the Chinese", perhaps they shouldn't have borrowed mind-boggling amounts of money from them. I guess it all goes to show Thatcher was right: the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
 
Weird Science said:
For years and years, Greece financed its massive public spending by incontinent borrowing. This was done by the politicians -- but with the full consent of the people who elected them to continue precisely this policy,
Click to expand...

Citation needed.

Remember, the Greek government was lying about how much it money it had coming in and how much it owed.
 
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