IAEA inspections underway in Iran

Besides, a modern democracy having the bomb is very different than a mideaval theocracy having it.

You forget: it's only a medieval theocracy if Rush Limbaugh has a radio show and Rick Santorum is running for president.

I wager five Internets you won't find a single reputable member of this forum who agrees that medieval theocracies should not have nuclear programs and that therefore Iran should not have a nuclear program.
 
This drivel makes one wonder how Iran, a major exporter of oil, gas and electricity, could possibly survive without nuclear power. Ludicorus.

McHrozni


1976: Cheney, Rumsfeld Lobby for Nuclear Power Plant in Iran

"Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and White House Chief of Staff Dick Cheney unsuccessfully lobby for the construction of a nuclear reprocessing plant in Iran. The two men devised the scheme because, they say, Iran needs a nuclear power program to meet its future energy needs."

History Commons
 
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1976: Cheney, Rumsfeld Lobby for Nuclear Power Plant in Iran

"Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and White House Chief of Staff Dick Cheney unsuccessfully lobby for the construction of a nuclear reprocessing plant in Iran. The two men devised the scheme because, they say, Iran needs a nuclear power program to meet its future energy needs."

History Commons

Nice find, Jihad.

Now do you care to describe the historical context in which this occurred for us?
 
'Global Oil Production Update - A Strange Future Has Arrived'

"This is why I am not concerned about an attack on Iran now. Peak Oil. Any attack on Iran or disruption to supply will end everything. There is no elasticity anywhere in the supply chain. And suddenly, every government in the world gets a dose of reality as all industrial nations choke on the lies they have been spewing for decades about how much oil there is and who's going to provide it." - Sex offender and 9/11 twoofer, Michael C Ruppert

You were missing a little context there. I got you covered though, Jihad.
 
Again: the moral difference between Israel having the bomb (if it has it)

LOL!

and Iran is very simple. Iran wants the bomb so it can commit genocide against the Jewish state,


No, it doesn't


while Israel wants the bomb as a last-ditch insuracne to help deter genocide against it.

Israel has already got the bomb. Why does it needs hundreds of them?

Besides, a modern democracy having the bomb is very different than a mideaval theocracy having it.

What's the difference?

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

ETA: Hi Twoofy!
 
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You forget: it's only a medieval theocracy if Rush Limbaugh has a radio show and Rick Santorum is running for president.

I wager five Internets you won't find a single reputable member of this forum who agrees that medieval theocracies should not have nuclear programs and that therefore Iran should not have a nuclear program.
I didn't know I was disreputable...Thanks for the heads-up.
 
The only way this to make any sense is if Iranian nuclear infrastructure was critical to their economic well being. It's not, they have alternatives. Therefore your claims they must have an independent fuel supply is useless.

That Iranian nuclear power is acceptable in no way addresses the issue that their nuclear enrichment activities are.
Secondly, much of Iranian enrichment activities amount to much more than just production of fuel. Why? Are you going to claim nuclear medicine is also absolutely vital for Iran to the point of having to rely on imports being completely intolerable?

Nope DavidS, I think "ludicrous drivel" describes your 'argument' quite well.

McHrozni
Then you're still not understanding me.

It was your earlier post that attacked the acceptability of Iranian nuclear power by suggesting it wasn't essential to their national survival. The post quoted above again throws "absolutely vital" at a point to which it just doesn't stick.

I never asserted that Iran "must have an independent fuel supply" for any "absolutely vital" purpose. I never even asserted that Iran should be allowed to have any nuclear operations at all.

My point is that foreign fuel supply offered on the condition that they do not develop their own may have little value for them whether their intent is to generate weapons (the imported fuel is presumably useless for weapons because it won't boom) or electricity (the imported fuel would be useless without costly, long-lead-time infrastructure developments that would then be exposed to supply disruption for as long as they'd need to develop domestic supplies or replace the plants). Whether Iran "must have" that power or weapons generation infrastructure doesn't really come into play. Neither is whether the costs are "critical to their economic well being" relevant; it's enough that those costs are more than they want to risk paying.

So, again:

Iran might reasonably reject, or intend to violate, an agreement to import fuel on condition they forego their own fuel enrichment if they intend to develop nuclear weapons.

Iran might reasonably reject, or intend to violate, an agreement to import fuel on condition they forego their own fuel enrichment if they intend to implement considerable nuclear power generation infrastructure.

Since they might reasonably reject the agreement for either reason, the rejection alone doesn't illuminate which.

Others might reasonably make such an offer to Iran, intending to honor the agreement, if they're willing to accept Iranian nuclear power infrastructure and expecting Iran to honor the agreement.

Others might reasonably make such an offer to Iran, intending to dishonor or threaten to dishonor the agreement sooner or later, if they're unwilling to accept Iranian nuclear power infrastructure without gaining some leverage for future confrontations.

Others might reasonably make such an offer to Iran for the offer's sake alone, expecting Iranian rejection.
 
'Iran Worried U.S. Might Be Building 8,500th Nuclear Weapon'

"TEHRAN—Amidst mounting geopolitical tensions, Iranian officials said Wednesday they were increasingly concerned about the United States of America's uranium-enrichment program, fearing the Western nation may soon be capable of producing its 8,500th nuclear weapon. "Our intelligence estimates indicate that, if it is allowed to progress with its aggressive nuclear program, the United States may soon possess its 8,500th atomic weapon capable of reaching Iran," said Iranian foreign minister Ali Akbar Salehi, adding that Americans have the fuel, the facilities, and "everything they need" to manufacture even more weapons-grade fissile material. "Obviously, the prospect of this happening is very distressing to Iran and all countries like Iran. After all, the United States is a volatile nation that's proven it needs little provocation to attack anyone anywhere in the world whom it perceives to be a threat." Iranian intelligence experts also warned of the very real, and very frightening, possibility of the U.S. providing weapons and resources to a rogue third-party state such as Israel."

[My bold -JJ]
 
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Iran to Unveil "Great Nuclear Achievements"

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said:
Great nuclear achievements will be announced in the next few days.

He went on to say that Israel's government was "rightly" very concerned about Iran's nuclear programme.

The BBC said:
In November, the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said it had information suggesting Iran had carried out tests "relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device".

Is this new speech a sign that something's really up, or just the usual political posturing?
 
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My point is that foreign fuel supply offered on the condition that they do not develop their own may have little value for them whether their intent is to generate weapons (the imported fuel is presumably useless for weapons because it won't boom) or electricity (the imported fuel would be useless without costly, long-lead-time infrastructure developments that would then be exposed to supply disruption for as long as they'd need to develop domestic supplies or replace the plants). Whether Iran "must have" that power or weapons generation infrastructure doesn't really come into play. Neither is whether the costs are "critical to their economic well being" relevant; it's enough that those costs are more than they want to risk paying.

No, DavidS, I understood you quite well. You're claiming Iran absolutely needs nuclear power for economic well-being.

Iran might reasonably reject, or intend to violate, an agreement to import fuel on condition they forego their own fuel enrichment if they intend to implement considerable nuclear power generation infrastructure.

Since the only reason you've given for this is "it's vulnerable to disruption", I'll go ahead and claim this is not a reasonable reason to reject or violate the agreement. Most of the world, including all developed world and China, is exposed to the same exact danger, mostly to a far greater extent than Iran, with relatively few options. To say Iran is being reasonable by rejecting such an option is indeed ludicrous.

McHrozni
 
Here's hoping.

Well, we know that the IAEA report was political posturing and actually confirmed that Iran has no nuclear weapons program, so it's likely that Iran's soon-to-be-announced "Great Nuclear Achievements" will also relate to their civil nuclear program.


No, DavidS, I understood you quite well. You're claiming Iran absolutely needs nuclear power for economic well-being.

Do you have an argument against this? As I stated above, a statement you ignored, IIRC, Iran's (and the world's) oil production is in decline (Peak Oil).

No country in the world would be wise depend on oil as source of electricity or future economic well-being.
 
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Do you have an argument against this? As I stated above, a statement you ignored, IIRC, Iran's (and the world's) oil production is in decline (Peak Oil).

No country in the world would be wise depend on oil as source of electricity or future economic well-being.

Another spectacular demonstration, if we needed it, that JJ fails at reading competition :)

Iran may benefit from nuclear power, but it's another matter entirely if it's so dependent on it as to not being able to forgo nuclear enrichment at this time. Clue: it's not. Not by a long shot.

McHrozni
 
"This is why I am not concerned about an attack on Iran now. Peak Oil. Any attack on Iran or disruption to supply will end everything. There is no elasticity anywhere in the supply chain. And suddenly, every government in the world gets a dose of reality as all industrial nations choke on the lies they have been spewing for decades about how much oil there is and who's going to provide it." - Michael C Ruppert

An ignorant savage. "Peak Oil" is a fraud. Disruption would cause some issues as the rest of the world re-adjusted to producing more, but there would be no "end of the world", though some would like to pretend historically minor adjustments (note: caused by government intervention in this case, as usual) are excruciatingly difficult rather than the normal course of advancement.
 
Another spectacular demonstration, if we needed it, that JJ fails at reading competition :)

Another demonstration that people with weak arguments prefer to concentrate on the messenger.

Iran may benefit from nuclear power, but it's another matter entirely if it's so dependent on it as to not being able to forgo nuclear enrichment at this time. Clue: it's not. Not by a long shot.

McHrozni

Evidence? Why should it forgo nuclear enrichment?

What other source of power do they have?

Iran is developing nuclear power for the present and the future.

Why has the US started building nuclear power stations again?


An ignorant savage. "Peak Oil" is a fraud. Disruption would cause some issues as the rest of the world re-adjusted to producing more, but there would be no "end of the world", though some would like to pretend historically minor adjustments (note: caused by government intervention in this case, as usual) are excruciatingly difficult rather than the normal course of advancement.

Lol, who said anything about the end of the world? Peak oil is not a "fraud". It's arrived and Iran's oil production is in decline.
 
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'Iran Worried U.S. Might Be Building 8,500th Nuclear Weapon'

"TEHRAN—Amidst mounting geopolitical tensions, Iranian officials said Wednesday they were increasingly concerned about the United States of America's uranium-enrichment program, fearing the Western nation may soon be capable of producing its 8,500th nuclear weapon. "Our intelligence estimates indicate that, if it is allowed to progress with its aggressive nuclear program, the United States may soon possess its 8,500th atomic weapon capable of reaching Iran," said Iranian foreign minister Ali Akbar Salehi, adding that Americans have the fuel, the facilities, and "everything they need" to manufacture even more weapons-grade fissile material. "Obviously, the prospect of this happening is very distressing to Iran and all countries like Iran. After all, the United States is a volatile nation that's proven it needs little provocation to attack anyone anywhere in the world whom it perceives to be a threat." Iranian intelligence experts also warned of the very real, and very frightening, possibility of the U.S. providing weapons and resources to a rogue third-party state such as Israel."

[My bold -JJ]
Oh my, you just cited The Onion!

:dl:
 

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