How reliable is the meditation experience?

[Alexander1304]

Hello all,
Recently I've read some articles about Eastern meditation and got confused.For example,influent indian teacher Ramana Maharshi told,that there is such thing as spiritual heart,and it is located on the right.He speaks of his personal expericne during the meditation.I'm impress by that,that it is not just written somewhere in holy book,but person speaks of his own experience,so...how reliable is that?Could it be just self-delusion?

 

[theprestige]

How reliable is the skydiving experience?

How reliable is the bike-riding experience?

How reliable is the weight-training experience? The endurance-training experience? The professional baseball experience?

 

[AdMan]

I'm not an expert, but in my view any benefits that meditation brings are related to the relaxation it allows, so it may be worthwhile for some (others may get similar benefits through exercise, for example). But there is also much woo incorporated into various meditation techniques and teachings (e.g., TM), so I would take much of that (like there being a "spiritual heart" on the right side) with a huge grain of salt.

 

[Alexander1304]

Thanks for the reply,guys.
That whas my point.I've heard that "spiritual heart on the right side" is part of eastern tradition,so I'd not care so much what ancients wrote.But when someone talks about "experience" it raises some questions...

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Thanks for the reply,guys.
That whas my point.I've heard that "spiritual heart on the right side" is part of eastern tradition,so I'd not care so much what ancients wrote.But when someone talks about "experience" it raises some questions...

What questions does it raise? Why would it surprise you that a person following a particular tradition has subjective experiences which fit within that tradition? When I was a catholic, I quite often felt the "presence" of Jesus/God when praying. Its called priming and imagination.

 

[Goshawk]

Are you saying that you wondered if this guy really did/does have a "spiritual heart" on the right side of his body?

The answer to that is, yes, he does have a "spiritual heart" on the right side of his body--if he wants to think that he does.

You can imagine that you have a spiritual heart, or a spiritual soul, or a set of spiritual angel wings, or a spiritual big toe, wherever you like on your body, it's a free country and imagination doesn't cost anything.

 

[Alexander1304]

Thanks guys,good points
Here I found statement made by this person,Sri Ramana Maharshi,looks naive in the extreme:
“It must be the heart at the right side of the chest since every man of whatever race and religion and in whatever language he may be speaking, points to the right side of the chest to indicate himself when he says 'I'. This is so all over the world, so that must be the place.”

 

[AdMan]

Thanks guys,good points
Here I found statement made by this person,Sri Ramana Maharshi,looks naive in the extreme:
“It must be the heart at the right side of the chest since every man of whatever race and religion and in whatever language he may be speaking, points to the right side of the chest to indicate himself when he says 'I'. This is so all over the world, so that must be the place.”

What a load of crap.

Naive is much too kind a word.

 

[Hokulele]

I can't look it up right now, but I recall reading an article that described how most people sense "themselves" to be located about 4 inches behind their eyes, not down in their chest.

 

[Lanzy]

Just because someone has a "personal" experience does not make it true. He read crap and repeated said crap.

 

[Alexander1304]

Just because someone has a "personal" experience does not make it true. He read crap and repeated said crap.

Yes,it goes back to the writing of the ancient Upanishads.They wrote about "spiritual heart on the right side"

 

[23_Tauri]

Yes,it goes back to the writing of the ancient Upanishads.They wrote about "spiritual heart on the right side"

But what relevance does that have to you, now, or for any of us for that matter?

Lots of people have written lots of things in the past. Doesn't mean jack, unless it's helpful in some way.

 

[Alexander1304]

But what relevance does that have to you, now, or for any of us for that matter?

Lots of people have written lots of things in the past. Doesn't mean jack, unless it's helpful in some way.

Well,I think it is related to the question "who are we" and "what are we consisted of"...

 

[23_Tauri]

Well,I think it is related to the question "who are we" and "what are we consisted of"...

As a sceptical person, I am only interested in things for which there is evidence. Someone writing that they have a spiritual heart on the right side isn't evidence of its existence, not for me it isn't, anyway.

Do you think you have a second heart? What does it do for you each day? Show me some evidence of your second heart.

 

[Alexander1304]

As a sceptical person, I am only interested in things for which there is evidence. Someone writing that they have a spiritual heart on the right side isn't evidence of its existence, not for me it isn't, anyway.

Do you think you have a second heart? What does it do for you each day? Show me some evidence of your second heart.

I am also skeptical person and I don't have evidence,but this indian guru told he experienced it during meditation.That's what I found puzzling...

 

[23_Tauri]

I am also skeptical person and I don't have evidence,but this indian guru told he experienced it during meditation.That's what I found puzzling...

It's hardly evidence though, is it? People say they experience stuff all the time, the presence of a dead relative in the room, for example. It's the product of neurons firing in the brain.

Alexander, have you read about experiments with the god helmet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet

In my opinion, we don't have to make up another layer of existence called 'spirituality' in order to explain certain human experiences.

 

[Resume]

I am also skeptical person and I don't have evidence,but this indian guru told he experienced it during meditation.That's what I found puzzling...

Gurus tend to experience a lot of stuff during meditation; it's what they do. You can take it or leave it but if they want something in exchange for this "enlightenment," run in the other direction.

ps: I'd leave the second heart idea if I were you.

 

[Alexander1304]

23 Tauri: no,I haven't read that,but I will.
Resume: That's my problem with such anecdotes.If I hear somebody "experienced" something I begin to take it seriously,perhaps way premature

 

[Almo]

One need only visit the insane asylum to know that strength of conviction is no indication of truth.

Some intelligent guy said that.

(Or something very much like it)

 

[23_Tauri]

23 Tauri: no,I haven't read that,but I will.

For a few years I believed that there was a spiritual aspect to human existence. I lived my life as if there was such a thing as spirituality. In the end I stopped because it had no tangible benefits for my life. When I told someone this, they replied by telling me that the reason for this was "you must be doing it wrong". That's a bit like a Christian telling someone who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ that they're not praying hard enough, or that they haven't got enough faith.