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Continuation Part 4: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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christianahannah,

The electronic data files are needed to create the electropherograms. Having them gives one the opportunity to zoom in on small peaks, for example. I spoke with an Italian legal expert who says that they have complete discovery. This suggests that the present case was an aberration. It is interesting that Raffaele's appeal indicated that Pascali was turned down when he asked for certain information in 2008.

I guess what I am asking, but not making clear (which I do frequently) is did the defense know what to ask for and did they ask for it by way of a request to the court (when they didn't get what was supposed to be complete discovery)? Did the expert you spoke with indicate what comprises complete discovery? And do you know what information it was that Pascali asked for in 2008?
 
The electronic data files are the raw numbers generated by the sequencer, which a computer then uses to create an electropherogram, i.e., the line graph with visible peaks.

Other important information:

Quantification data - test results showing how much DNA was in a given sample before it was prepared for the sequencer.

Control results - i.e., for blank samples run through the sequencer to make sure there are no DNA contaminants in the system. Faking controls is the most common fraudulent practice in forensic DNA labs, because contamination is a frequent problem. If it is detected in a control sample, everything has to be done over again. Stefanoni seems to have avoided this pitfall by simply not performing control tests.

Defense consultants requested this information, and more, in written documentation submitted to the court. Stefanoni responded by providing a disorganized mess of extraneous material that omitted exactly what was needed to evaluate the most significant test results. Finally, Hellmann demanded that she give C&V what they wanted. When she did, some key information, such as control data, was missing completely, but what she did hand over was enough to establish that her results were unreliable, especially with regard to Sample 36B, the knife blade.

Thank you for clarifying the terms concerning the documents/reports. I am not trying to be difficult but I really am interested in what was requested, when it was requested, what wasn't given, and why it wasn't given.

I know there was conflict between the controls/no controls. The prosecution maintained they were done, C&V said it appeared none were done.

I was fairly certain there was written documentation by the defense but not having seen it couldn't be totally certain. Thank you for answering that.
 
Something that struck me from Hicham Khiri's testimony, translated by thoughtful some time back, is that the police seemed quite suspicious of his involvement on the 3rd/4th, so much so they came to his house at 2 a.m. to take him to the police station:

In his case it seems to have been the fact he was in the area of the cottage that night, as well as him having met both Meredith and Amanda, that made made the police suspect him. So at least up to the night of 3/4 November they weren't focused exclusively on Amanda, Raffaele and Patrick.

I have previous posted on the Mignini conspiracy thread some news reports indicating a possible focus on a person of African descent, including references to North African's.

I am curious if this Hicham Khiri falls into that category?
 
Yes, I think it's very difficult to tell at this stage whether the police had zeroed in on Amanda early on, or whether they were already convinced she was involved. I agree that there's no really convincing evidence she wasn't just one of several leads they were following up at the same time, and in her case they were probably more interested in the names of men she and Meredith knew who might have done it, rather than suspecting her of direct involvement. As you say, Giobbi's words afterwards could just be bragging. I don't think they can possibly have known beforehand what Amanda wrote in her text message to Patrick, and that seems to have triggered the whole thing.

Well, it depends on when we are talking about them "knowing what was correct". I'm saying that they suspected her involvement before the interrogations of the 5th and "nailed" it down when they found the text message in her phone.

I don't know how we could possibly have "really convincing evidence she wasn't just one of several leads ". I'm fairly sure that the PLE hadn't narrowed it down to only Amanda, but I am also pretty sure that she was very high on the list.

It is lucky for Amanda that the police hadn't actually identified Rudy before the night of the 5th. Just imagine the police had matched up the palm and finger prints of Rudy and then turned the screws on Amanda and had her having visions of Rudy at the cottage.

The Corte Suprema di Cassazione will only rule on the legal technical aspects of the calunnia convictions. I would guess that the defense will argue that the calunnia charge shouldn't have been tried at the same time as the murder trial.

If it gets sent back down I would hope that they change the venue and the public prosecutors. How strange that Mignini was allowed to try the murder case and even more so the calunnia charge given that he was a key active participant in the "chargeable" events.

The false charge of an innocent black man is the point of leverage in this entire case. Take out that night and there are no significant story changes and admission of anything. The English girls were not able to pin down their time of eating - they had a spread of at least an hour 5:30 to 6:30. Somebody told the police that Meredith had made a date for that night and then changed their story (in PGP parlance, they lied).

"Commissioner Marco Chiacchiera, who is leading the investigation, said: "The most plausible hypothesis we have is that she met someone at the Hallowe'en party. She expressed a desire to meet him again. She had been to a friend's house on the night she was murdered but decided to make her own way home to meet him.""


The above from an early Telegraph story

It would be really interesting to get the police notes on their early witness statements. I think the English girls changed their stories out of concern that Meredith could be blamed in some bizarre way.

Claims that Meredith had been attacked by a boyfriend were dismissed by friends yesterday, who said she was not in a relationship.

Above from this Guardian story

Strange that her having a boyfriend was either unknown or covered up.
 
I guess I did miss the main point, however, I'll keep trying until I get it right.

I was responding to your question of what happened to the missing tapes (if there were tapes). I don't know any more than you so I was speculating.

I am not sure what information you are speaking of. The information about Giobbi and Mignini? Or more?

Since you appear to know my opinion on the case you probably also know I like official documents to reinforce whatever is written by media and that it helps me with my opinion to compare the two - media against official documents.

Fair enough and no offense intended. Hopefully we can get the court transcripts at some point of this testimony that Frank is referring to.
 
I guess what I am asking, but not making clear (which I do frequently) is did the defense know what to ask for and did they ask for it by way of a request to the court (when they didn't get what was supposed to be complete discovery)? Did the expert you spoke with indicate what comprises complete discovery? And do you know what information it was that Pascali asked for in 2008?

Here is Machiavelli's take on the request in court and also refers to previous reports.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7648162&postcount=10973
 
I have previous posted on the Mignini conspiracy thread some news reports indicating a possible focus on a person of African descent, including references to North African's.

I am curious if this Hicham Khiri falls into that category?

Was he the Moroccan nicknamed Shaky? If so, thoughtful did a translation of his testimony on .org. I don't have search capability but would like to see that translation again.
 
I have previous posted on the Mignini conspiracy thread some news reports indicating a possible focus on a person of African descent, including references to North African's.

I am curious if this Hicham Khiri falls into that category?


Is Morrocan close enough?

In 2007, Hicham Khiri ran a small clothing shop in Perugia not far from Meredith's cottage.
 
It is lucky for Amanda that the police hadn't actually identified Rudy before the night of the 5th. Just imagine the police had matched up the palm and finger prints of Rudy and then turned the screws on Amanda and had her having visions of Rudy at the cottage.
On this we can agree - and it is a chilling insight. In the long run, the police focussing on Lumumba (whether or not they heavily suspected him prior to the "see you later" SMS text) saves Knox. With Lumumba in the imaginings, it is obvious she wasn't there. If it had been Guede in her imaginings..... <shiver>

It would be really interesting to get the police notes on their early witness statements. I think the English girls changed their stories out of concern that Meredith could be blamed in some bizarre way.

Claims that Meredith had been attacked by a boyfriend were dismissed by friends yesterday, who said she was not in a relationship.

Above from this Guardian story

Strange that her having a boyfriend was either unknown or covered up.
Acc. to Dempsey, Knox herself was complicit in this cover-up. It was the one lie that Dempsey said Knox told in one of her early interviews/interrogations. Seems that pre-Nov 5/6 all of Meredith's friends, Knox included, were trying to avoid sullying Meredith's memory.

I cannot help note that this is what the PGP these days claim they are doing, too. What's that all about?
 
I found the Hicham translation and here is a snip that counters the idea that Raffaele had to know Rudy - and not just by sight.

Q: Do you know Rudy Guede?

A: By sight, yes, I’ve been living in Perugia for 12 years, I know him by sight, but I’ve never spoken to him, I’ve never had any contact with him.

Q: But where did you meet him? Where did you see him?

A: Perugia is a little town, it’s enough to go out to the fountain…in piazza IV Novembre and piazza Italia, and you meet everyone!

Q: So for example…

A: I saw him around town, and also in the pubs.

Q: Did you ever see him at the “Gradisca”?

A: No.

Q: At the “Merlin”?

A: Sometimes at the “Merlin”, yes.

Q: At the “Domus”?

A: Also.
 
A more extensive snip of the Hicham translation.


Q: What type of question did they ask you?

A: They asked me things concerning the English student, if I knew that girl and the other girls, her friends.

Q: Did you know Meredith Kercher?

A: By sight, yes, because I knew her friend Sophie, and she was always together with her friend.

Q: Did you frequent each other, did you go out together in the evenings?

A: I met Sophie’s friend with her two or three times. But Meredith, no, I never had any contact with her.

Q: Can you tell us some particular fact, a disco for example, or some particular occasion?

A: Like, I don’t know, the day of Halloween we saw each other both at the “Merlin” and at the “Domus”, I met Sophie and Meredith was with her.

Q: And before Halloween you never met at the pub “Merlin”? At the beginning of September?

A: Yes, we saw each other there too, at the beginning of September, and I also ran into Sophie often, and her friend was always with her.

Q: But did you have intimate relations with this Mrs. Sophie?

A: No.

Q: But you made a pass at her?

A: Yes, on the day of Halloween, I made a pass at the girl Sophie, and I had fun with her on the day of Halloween at a place in the old city center.

Q: And did you kiss each other?

A: Yes.

Q: You said this at…

A: Yes yes yes, I testified to this in my interrogation.

Q: You also told a story about having brought the girls home from the “Merlin” in September, and one of the girls was inebriated, do you remember that?

A: No, that wasn’t at the “Merlin”, that was at…

Q: Sorry, not at the “Merlin”, at the “Gradisca”?

A: The “Gradisca”, yes.

Q: Can you tell us more about this episode?

A: So, that…so, one evening I was at this place the “Gradisca”, but I hadn’t met any of the girls in there, but while I was leaving I was with a friend of mine who had his car, and at the exit I saw this girl Sophie whom I knew, and she was so drunk that she needed someone to take her home. We gave them a ride to via Pinturicchio, that was all.

Q: And who else was there together with Sophie?

A: Meredith was also there, and another of her friends, there were three of them, we took them to via Pinturicchio.

Q: Do you know Amanda Knox, have you ever met her?

A: A: Yes, I met her once at Patrik’s pub, ex “Le Chic”..

Q: Patrik Lumumba?

A: Patrik Lumumba.

Q: But did you also meet her together with Meredith?

A: No, she was alone, she was with a boy called Juve, I knew her through him, he introduced her to me.

Q: You also talked about an episode concerning a ring that Sophie apparently gave you and then she…can you tell us about that episode?

A: That was the first day I met Sophie, it was during the first days of September, what I said was that she was in a pub in the old city center and we met and talked, and she left a ring of hers with me and then she came by my shop to get it, it was a little ring, nothing special.

Q: Were you ever at Meredith’s house in via della Pergola?

A: No, absolutely not, never.

Q: Do you know the boys who live underneath, on the lower floor of via della Pergola?

A: No, absolutely not, I don’t know any of those boys.
 
With all due respect, PhantomWolf, all you are describing is one of the many investigative possibilities along an investigative tree, which the police would have been stupid not to follow.

<Cut for brevity>

Why is this hard to fathom?

It's not hard to fathom, and there is little need to be rude about it, we disagree, so be it.

I don't think the police were stupid, I think you don't give them enough credit.

We know they had the parking garage camera footage and had identified the woman returning to the house (now known to have been Meredith) as Amanda due to their getting the time wrong. This means that they had the footage of a black man (Rudy) heading to the cottage as well.

Why would they not then have serious suspicions about Amanda and a black friend being involved? They had them on tape going to the scene at a time Amanda claims she was nowhere near. Add to that Giobbi's belief that Amanda was one of the killers based on her "hip swivel" and "eating pizza when she should have been in bed crying" and there is no way that you can deny that Amanda was prime suspect on the 5th, and likely before that.

They never had that sort of evidence on Romanelli, she had multiple witnesses to her movements early on, and her boyfriend for the rest of the night, and she was also out of walking distance, whereas Amanda wasn't.

It wouldn't have taken the Police that long to figure that Amanda has a black boss, and getting her phone records would have at least revealed the occurrence of the texts between them right before the two are seen on the car parking garage tapes. Further investigation of his phone would have revealed its presence near the Cottage at the time in question.

Do you think the police are stupid? Here they have footage of two suspects, evidence of communication between them, solid evidence of one of them being there by his phone, both of them lying about their whereabouts, and then they see them meeting together on the 5th. With this sort of evidence and no evidence pointing to anyone else at the time, why would they not have come to the conclusion that they had their people? All they had to do was break Raffelle to get him to stop supporting Amanda's alibi, and then use that and the evidence they had against her to break Amanda and get Patrick.

So they call in the best cops they can get to do the interrogation in the middle of the night, watched over by the PM and local chief, and go to work to get what they need.

You yourself pointed out that the parts of Amanda's statement that were fuzzy were the parts that the police were fuzzy on. If Amanda had created the story and shocked the police with it, then this would not be so, she would have given details the police didn't know, or suspect. The only way that her story would be fuzzy in the exact places the police’s knowledge was fuzzy, was for them to have been feeding her the story, which they did based on the evidence they had.

Oh, and they didn't actually lie to Amanda as such. I think that they truly did believe that they had the evidence against her and Patrick. Raffelle had stopped supporting her alibi, they'd confused him and he said she went out, so they had the first step. At that point they took her into interrogation and worked on her until they convinced her that what they were telling her was true. Assuming that they didn't already know it's content, the text message still being on the phone was just icing on the cake for them.

I also have to agree with Charlie. Unless they believed that her statements agreed with what they already believed happened, and expected to have confirmed by the forensics, they'd never have gone after Patrick on the strength of those statements, let alone in the way they did. They'd have pushed for far more detail, tried to flesh out what she was talking about. The fact that they didn't when we know they didn't just stop asking questions, again indicates that what they got her to say was what they already believed and her saying it was just confirmation to them.
 
Yes, I think it's very difficult to tell at this stage whether the police had zeroed in on Amanda early on, or whether they were already convinced she was involved. I agree that there's no really convincing evidence she wasn't just one of several leads they were following up at the same time, and in her case they were probably more interested in the names of men she and Meredith knew who might have done it, rather than suspecting her of direct involvement. As you say, Giobbi's words afterwards could just be bragging. I don't think they can possibly have known beforehand what Amanda wrote in her text message to Patrick, and that seems to have triggered the whole thing.

Something that struck me from Hicham Khiri's testimony, some time back, is that the police seemed quite suspicious of his involvement on the 3rd/4th, so much so they came to his house at 2 a.m. to take him to the police station:



In his case it seems to have been the fact he was in the area of the cottage that night, as well as him having met both Meredith and Amanda, that made made the police suspect him. So at least up to the night of 3/4 November they weren't focused exclusively on Amanda, Raffaele and Patrick.
Interesting. So even if Amanda had not gone with Raffaele on the 5th, the police would have no compunction about going and getting her after finishing with him. This is important because many PGPs use the idea that she just happened to be at the questura with Raffaele as proof that the police had no interest in her, till Raffaele blew the alibi, and then under questioning she admitted to her involvement.

The point being, their game plan would have played out regardless of whether or not she went with Raffaele. We'd have had the same result.
 
Interesting. So even if Amanda had not gone with Raffaele on the 5th, the police would have no compunction about going and getting her after finishing with him. This is important because many PGPs use the idea that she just happened to be at the questura with Raffaele as proof that the police had no interest in her, till Raffaele blew the alibi, and then under questioning she admitted to her involvement.

The point being, their game plan would have played out regardless of whether or not she went with Raffaele. We'd have had the same result.

Yes, and this is, IMO, a weak argument on the PG side. They act as though the police would not have been able to go get Amanda anytime they wanted. If I were the police, I would have assumed Amanda would come, but if for some reason she didn't, they were either watching her or they could just ask Raffaele where she was.

The PG side wants people to believe that the police just happened to have 12 cops at the station ready to work on witnesses all night, several of whom were brought in from Rome. That they just casually started asking Amanda questions, and she suddenly broke down and confessed!

Come on. I have no doubt they were all staffed up, and ready to put the screws to Amanda and Raff that night, before Amanda's mom showed up the next day. And they fed her the story -- how much of it, I don't know, but there was nothing "spontaneous" about it.
 
It's not hard to fathom, and there is little need to be rude about it, we disagree, so be it.
Not meant that way, but apologies if it sounded that way.

We're arguing a shade of grey here, and I am am having problems disputing anything you say, really. The shade of grey really is, just how surprised WERE police prior to the 1:45 confession memorandum?

I'm pushing for that they thought the evidence that they had, as you outline very well, was a bit of a long shot. The shade of grey is that you bump it up to being theory numero uno. Is this not a fair description of the "grey" that separates us?

I don't think the police were stupid, I think you don't give them enough credit.

We know they had the parking garage camera footage and had identified the woman returning to the house (now known to have been Meredith) as Amanda due to their getting the time wrong. This means that they had the footage of a black man (Rudy) heading to the cottage as well.

Why would they not then have serious suspicions about Amanda and a black friend being involved? They had them on tape going to the scene at a time Amanda claims she was nowhere near. Add to that Giobbi's belief that Amanda was one of the killers based on her "hip swivel" and "eating pizza when she should have been in bed crying" and there is no way that you can deny that Amanda was prime suspect on the 5th, and likely before that.

They never had that sort of evidence on Romanelli, she had multiple witnesses to her movements early on, and her boyfriend for the rest of the night, and she was also out of walking distance, whereas Amanda wasn't.
The shade of grey, then, is that if Amanda had a black boss, and if the police had mistaken the timing of the CCTV camera to make it look like Amanda and Lumumba going to the cottage, rather than Meredith and Rudy, I think the police were very aware that they could not be sure about the Amanda/Lumumba pairing. So here we are, two innocenters, trying to make the police seem smart!

This is the problem I am having in arguing this - I just repeat, that the police were more than likely as vigourously investigating the other possibilities; Amanda's black boss vs. Romanelli scoffing her laptop from a crime scene both could (and should) fuel police suspicions in those early, fog-of-war days. It's just that Romanelli had lawyered up.... and the police needed to solve this faster than the regular processes seemed to allow.

Amanda too had multiple witnesses early on - visitors to Raf's place who saw her. So I think it is a saw-off, and on the late evening of Nov 5, they just took full advantage of having Knox in the building to put the boots to Raf, as you say.

What's coming is like the scene between Cruise and Nicholson in "A Few Good Men," all Cruise has to do is get Nicholson to say, "I ordered a code red." And no one is more surprised than Cruise that Nicholson actually says it. Even though, Knox is only parroting the police-imaginings... I believe the cops are equally surprised, "Tun-der-en, Jay-zuz, me boy, we wuz right!"

Even with Raf's alibi-destroying forced imaginings of his own, if Knox had not played along, if she'd clammed up, or fainted and needed hospitalization, I don't think the cops would have had anything to upgrade her to "suspect".

It would be just like it is with PGP people today (four years later) - "she knows something she isn't telling."

Remember, Knox's mistake was that she thought she was being helpful, and was genuinely mystified that the police thought she had ANY information that might solve this. She lives that betrayal to this day.

I'm not sure what else to argue, given that I'm not dismissing at all what you claim the cops think they had. But they also had other investigative routes - frustratingly, they simply couldn't pull Romanelli into an interview room like they'd done to Knox. They took advantage of her helpfulness, lied to her basically.

It wouldn't have taken the Police that long to figure that Amanda has a black boss, and getting her phone records would have at least revealed the occurrence of the texts between them right before the two are seen on the car parking garage tapes. Further investigation of his phone would have revealed its presence near the Cottage at the time in question.
And if they'd showed a little patience - maybe that's what we're arguing about - by that time Guede might have been in the picture, and Commissioner Marco Chiacchiera could have said, "I told you so!"

You yourself pointed out that the parts of Amanda's statement that were fuzzy were the parts that the police were fuzzy on. If Amanda had created the story and shocked the police with it, then this would not be so, she would have given details the police didn't know, or suspect. The only way that her story would be fuzzy in the exact places the police’s knowledge was fuzzy, was for them to have been feeding her the story, which they did based on the evidence they had.
This fits both our scenarios, as they are reflected in the memorandums. We are arguing about the beginning of the process which led to the memorandums. I think the police were genuinely surprised to find that this one struck oil. To the police it must have seemed like hitting a home run on their last at-bat.

Oh, and they didn't actually lie to Amanda as such. I think that they truly did believe that they had the evidence against her and Patrick.
Similarly they wouldn't have been lying to Romanelli as such - if they'd put the screws to her, thinking that stealing her laptop suggested "Romanelli knows something that's going to break this wide open. All we have to do is to get Romanelli's boyfriend to admit that he couldn't verify her whereabouts while he's asleep, and take that to Romanelli and see if she starts to sweat."

If Romanelli started to imagine how Meredith could have died, there could have been a similiar, "You must then have been there, Filomena, or else how do you know? After all, you've got a front door key, and we have evidence the break-in in YOUR room was staged." They could have even accused her of a nice bit of misdirection by agreeing with postal police on Nov 2 that it looked staged - arguing that point would draw attention to her.

My point is that it could have easily been Filomena subsituted for Knox, or even four perps instead of three - that would have been even more lurid for the tabloid press.

So what is it that we're aruging other than a shade of grey - one that (and I'm not being rude here) there's no evidence to suggest that other possibilities could have been just as pressing.

Please, I'm not being rude - your position is based on 20-20 hindsight. I believe that a fair description, and not an insult or anything.
 
It's not hard to fathom, and there is little need to be rude about it, we disagree, so be it.

I don't think the police were stupid, I think you don't give them enough credit.

We know they had the parking garage camera footage and had identified the woman returning to the house (now known to have been Meredith) as Amanda due to their getting the time wrong. This means that they had the footage of a black man (Rudy) heading to the cottage as well.

Why would they not then have serious suspicions about Amanda and a black friend being involved? They had them on tape going to the scene at a time Amanda claims she was nowhere near. Add to that Giobbi's belief that Amanda was one of the killers based on her "hip swivel" and "eating pizza when she should have been in bed crying" and there is no way that you can deny that Amanda was prime suspect on the 5th, and likely before that.

They never had that sort of evidence on Romanelli, she had multiple witnesses to her movements early on, and her boyfriend for the rest of the night, and she was also out of walking distance, whereas Amanda wasn't.

It wouldn't have taken the Police that long to figure that Amanda has a black boss, and getting her phone records would have at least revealed the occurrence of the texts between them right before the two are seen on the car parking garage tapes. Further investigation of his phone would have revealed its presence near the Cottage at the time in question.

Do you think the police are stupid? Here they have footage of two suspects, evidence of communication between them, solid evidence of one of them being there by his phone, both of them lying about their whereabouts, and then they see them meeting together on the 5th. With this sort of evidence and no evidence pointing to anyone else at the time, why would they not have come to the conclusion that they had their people? All they had to do was break Raffelle to get him to stop supporting Amanda's alibi, and then use that and the evidence they had against her to break Amanda and get Patrick.

So they call in the best cops they can get to do the interrogation in the middle of the night, watched over by the PM and local chief, and go to work to get what they need.

You yourself pointed out that the parts of Amanda's statement that were fuzzy were the parts that the police were fuzzy on. If Amanda had created the story and shocked the police with it, then this would not be so, she would have given details the police didn't know, or suspect. The only way that her story would be fuzzy in the exact places the police’s knowledge was fuzzy, was for them to have been feeding her the story, which they did based on the evidence they had.

Oh, and they didn't actually lie to Amanda as such. I think that they truly did believe that they had the evidence against her and Patrick. Raffelle had stopped supporting her alibi, they'd confused him and he said she went out, so they had the first step. At that point they took her into interrogation and worked on her until they convinced her that what they were telling her was true. Assuming that they didn't already know it's content, the text message still being on the phone was just icing on the cake for them.

I also have to agree with Charlie. Unless they believed that her statements agreed with what they already believed happened, and expected to have confirmed by the forensics, they'd never have gone after Patrick on the strength of those statements, let alone in the way they did. They'd have pushed for far more detail, tried to flesh out what she was talking about. The fact that they didn't when we know they didn't just stop asking questions, again indicates that what they got her to say was what they already believed and her saying it was just confirmation to them.

This is an explanation of the sequence of events I hadn't seen before. After this the behaviour of the police up to the night of 5-6 November begins to make sense. It's a pity that pro-guilt commentators continue to cling to the police and prosecution's revision of this process of reasoning, created after the arrest of Rudy Guede.
 
It's not hard to fathom, and there is little need to be rude about it, we disagree, so be it.

I don't think the police were stupid, I think you don't give them enough credit.
I am weighing in on Bill's side of this one. I think the police were truly cretinous and that you never go far wrong by underestimating their intelligence whether in Italy or here (England) or, probably anywhere. Most of the time, criminals fall into their laps because they are even more stupid.

We know they had the parking garage camera footage and had identified the woman returning to the house (now known to have been Meredith) as Amanda due to their getting the time wrong. This means that they had the footage of a black man (Rudy) heading to the cottage as well.

Why would they not then have serious suspicions about Amanda and a black friend being involved? They had them on tape going to the scene at a time Amanda claims she was nowhere near. Add to that Giobbi's belief that Amanda was one of the killers based on her "hip swivel" and "eating pizza when she should have been in bed crying" and there is no way that you can deny that Amanda was prime suspect on the 5th, and likely before that.
So, you think attaching significance to the hip swivel and pizza eating are not evidence of stupidity? I demur.
They never had that sort of evidence on Romanelli, she had multiple witnesses to her movements early on, and her boyfriend for the rest of the night, and she was also out of walking distance, whereas Amanda wasn't.

It wouldn't have taken the Police that long to figure that Amanda has a black boss, and getting her phone records would have at least revealed the occurrence of the texts between them right before the two are seen on the car parking garage tapes. Further investigation of his phone would have revealed its presence near the Cottage at the time in question.
How long would it have taken the police to pop round to Le Chic anytime between 02-11-07 and 05-11-07 and interview Patrick, check his till receipts and ask him a question or two about where he was on the NIQ? They needn't have tipped their hand, they could just say they were verifying accounts given by all occupants and those associated with him (as they were probably doing anyway). Had they done some basic police work like this they would not have ruined Patrick's life nor made themselves look foolish.

Do you think the police are stupid? Here they have footage of two suspects, evidence of communication between them, solid evidence of one of them being there by his phone, both of them lying about their whereabouts, and then they see them meeting together on the 5th. With this sort of evidence and no evidence pointing to anyone else at the time, why would they not have come to the conclusion that they had their people? All they had to do was break Raffelle to get him to stop supporting Amanda's alibi, and then use that and the evidence they had against her to break Amanda and get Patrick.
They had a perfectly harmless and easily explained exchange of texts between employer and employee which, because they were stupid, they turned into evidence of guilt. It is not hindsight which warrants the characterisation of stupidity but elementary common sense.

So they call in the best cops they can get to do the interrogation in the middle of the night, watched over by the PM and local chief, and go to work to get what they need.

You yourself pointed out that the parts of Amanda's statement that were fuzzy were the parts that the police were fuzzy on. If Amanda had created the story and shocked the police with it, then this would not be so, she would have given details the police didn't know, or suspect. The only way that her story would be fuzzy in the exact places the police’s knowledge was fuzzy, was for them to have been feeding her the story, which they did based on the evidence they had.
You are simply describing their stupidity in technicolor. Watch Colombo if you want to see a real policeman at work. Doing things the Perugia way you get what turns out to be an obviously dodgy document which has more of the cops' own idiotic surmise in it than actual information from the suspect. 53 hours at the questura and the crack team of interrogators come up with 'I confusedly remember Patrick did it.' Brilliant!

Oh, and they didn't actually lie to Amanda as such. I think that they truly did believe that they had the evidence against her and Patrick.
Agreed. And why did they believe this? Because they were ...

Raffelle had stopped supporting her alibi, they'd confused him and he said she went out, so they had the first step. At that point they took her into interrogation and worked on her until they convinced her that what they were telling her was true. Assuming that they didn't already know it's content, the text message still being on the phone was just icing on the cake for them.
Words fail me.

I also have to agree with Charlie. Unless they believed that her statements agreed with what they already believed happened, and expected to have confirmed by the forensics, they'd never have gone after Patrick on the strength of those statements, let alone in the way they did. They'd have pushed for far more detail, tried to flesh out what she was talking about. The fact that they didn't when we know they didn't just stop asking questions, again indicates that what they got her to say was what they already believed and her saying it was just confirmation to them.
Ever heard of confirmation bias? They were not going to let her out of there until she had confirmed their bias? That is stupid because it is unproductive of useful new information. Four years later, we are still discussing the consequences.
 
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