Merged "Iron-rich spheres" - scienctific explanation?

BasqueArch said:
I can't think of where lead was used in conjunction with the structural steel. In those days lead was used to solder copper water lines. So perhaps thermite was used to blow up the the bathrooms.
Lead painted structural primer is a possibility if it was used.
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RJ Lee somewhere say that each personal computer had an average of 2 pounds of lead (where??). Lead-based paints played a minor role, none were probably used on the buildings themselves.

BasqueArch said:
Metals have a lower melting point as their particle size becomes smaller.
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Do we have a good source that gives us numbers - tables with melting points per particle size, something like that?
 
Christopher7 said:
RJ Lee Group:
The presence of lead oxide on the surface of mineral wool indicate the existence of extremely high temperatures during the collapse.
...
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The Damage Assessment Report, WTC Dust Signature Report, Composition and Morphology, which is what we refer to 98% of the time when we reference "the RJ Lee report" contains the word "extreme" exactly once, and it refers to the forces of collapse, not temperature. Are you aware of that? RJ Lee consistently talks about merely "high temperature".
 
As for the interpretation of what RJ Lee meant by "melting", "high temperature", "volatilize" etc., why don't you all wait a few days? I asked them. I think you have all now repeated your opinions on these things about half azillion times. I don't think you will have more success if you repeat them another half zillion times.
 
=Oystein;7986106]RJ Lee somewhere say that each personal computer had an average of 2 pounds of lead (where??).
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Mostly in the solder....which prior to RoHS changes (removal of hazardous substances) driven mainly by the EU, was a tin lead alloy.
 
Oystein said:
RJ .....
Do we have a good source that gives us numbers - tables with melting points per particle size, something like that?
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Melting-point depression
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Quote:
is a term referring to the phenomenon of reduction of the melting point of a material with reduction of its size. This phenomenon is very prominent in nanoscale materials which melt at temperatures hundreds of degrees lower than bulk materials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melting-point_depression
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and http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0009261407010512

(pay to read)

I just sent this article to a physicist friend of mine. He specializes in nanomaterials for room temperature processors. He has university privileges and will research the issue of small particle iron, lead, aluminum melting points per size of material.
I asked him about temperature experiments of these materials. Seems the heating / measuring equipment is expensive and they don't want to get it "dirty".
He can do SEM, XEDS of things I bring him.

.
 
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45 pages. Is there a new peer-reviewed article out by Jones or Harriet or others? I recall Frank Greening asking for some of the sample they worked on, did he ever get it? Am I even thinking of the right argument?

I've been gone from the absurdly intricate world of 911 denialism that I don't know all the most current claims. The fact that this thread is still running could mean that there has been more research put out by the 911 TM that I would be interested in reading.
 
fourtoe said:
45 pages. Is there a new peer-reviewed article out by Jones or Harriet or others? I recall Frank Greening asking for some of the sample they worked on, did he ever get it? Am I even thinking of the right argument?

I've been gone from the absurdly intricate world of 911 denialism that I don't know all the most current claims. The fact that this thread is still running could mean that there has been more research put out by the 911 TM that I would be interested in reading.
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Nothing new really from the TM on the nanothermite front.
There will be two papers in a short time from the other side. One will make a case that the chips Jones or Harriet looked at most closely are primer paint from the floor joists (LaClede Steel Company's standard primer) - a Zinc-free formulation different from that of the better known column primer (Tnemec red).
The other will be a more competent chemical analysis of identical chips from WTC dust that should identify all significant chemical compounds unequivocally and allow us to make a final decision paint or thermite. This latter paper is planned to be published in a legit, peer-reviewed science journal.
 
Oystein said:
Nothing new really from the TM on the nanothermite front.
There will be two papers in a short time from the other side. One will make a case that the chips Jones or Harriet looked at most closely are primer paint from the floor joists (LaClede Steel Company's standard primer) - a Zinc-free formulation different from that of the better known column primer (Tnemec red).
The other will be a more competent chemical analysis of identical chips from WTC dust that should identify all significant chemical compounds unequivocally and allow us to make a final decision paint or thermite. This latter paper is planned to be published in a legit, peer-reviewed science journal.
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Who are the authors? What journal exactly? So there aren't any new papers written on the Truther side?
 
fourtoe said:
Who are the authors? What journal exactly? So there aren't any new papers written on the Truther side?
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I will write the first :D

The other will be by Jim Milette. Don't remember if the journal is already chosen, or if he'll try several.

I certainly don't know everything truthers have written - probably plenty of PDFs, but no one has come here and shown us anything that isn't a rehash of old stuff; and certainly no new scientific work, as far as I am aware.
 
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Oystein said:
I certainly don't know everything truthers have written - probably plenty of PDFs, but no one has come here and shown us anything that isn't a rehash of old stuff; and certainly no new scientific work, as far as I am aware.
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Come now, They have 911blogger. Thats almost as good as JF911S
 
Christopher7 said:
Well there you go. You hand wave the RJ Lee Group report as "nonsense". :rolleyes:.
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Why do you even trust the RJ Lee report? You claim they are so incompetent or mindless drones they will unquestioningly believe those who you say are "so called" experts that jet fuel melted steel. How can RJ Lee be the experts you say they are and yet they also suddenly believe impossible things just because they read some quote from a guy in a newspaper? Suddenly they loose all their training and decide that Jet fuel melts steel now? You need people to behave in very strange ways Christopher.
 
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Oystein said:
RJ Lee somewhere say that each personal computer had an average of 2 pounds of lead (where??). Lead-based paints played a minor role, none were probably used on the buildings themselves.
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Lead-based paints were already being phased out in the 1960s. It would probbly have been most common on fire extinguishers and some steel pipes if present at at all in the towers.

There were massive battery banks full of lead plates all over the place for emergency power and small ones in stairwell emergency lighting devices, at least as late as 1990. Some of these tend to arc out and produce a bit of vaporized lead and some lead salts when you ram an airplane through them.
 
Christopher7 said:
Some people are so arrogant that they actually think that they know better than the RJ Lee Group - go figure. :rolleyes:
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What about arrogant people who think they can take the RJ Lee Group's data and interpret it into something that the RJ Lee Group wouldn't support???
 
ergo said:
It's actually more like:



But I don't know of any official statement on the part of the ASCE that declares their support. As a large body, ASCE certainly can't speak for all its members.
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Despite all the professional commentary, despite all the research (outside of NIST) Despite the building code changes which affects everyone in the Construction industry. Despite it being probably the most relevant, important and talked about subject in these fields in the last decade, you have to believe that the reason no one is talking about your claims and supporting them is either because they just don't care, because they are lying, because they are scared or because they are brainwashed stupid. Seems pretty obvious that anyone that has not spoken about it, their silence shows the support. But you dont believe that, you require there to be a bizarre reason for having so little support from the professional world where people behave in very strange ways.

Its not unexpected that you would think that, Christopher has been arguing and implying that RJ Lee are highly credentialed experts, so highly credentialed that they are basically unquestionable. Yet he also said RJ Lee believe that jet fuel fires melted steel on 911 because they read what Christopher calls "so called experts" saying that jet fuel fire melted steel in a newspaper. How very strange he requires his highly credentialed experts to behave! That they just forget all their training and expertise and believe something you guys say is impossible, and easily shown to be impossible to anyone unqualified, and that they do this with such casual disregard and still fail to notice or fail to care for nearly a decade now. If you can believe that it is reasonable for RJ Lee to behave in that manor, I guess its not a stretch to think its the same for the rest of scientific and engineering community.
 
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Justin39640 said:
What about arrogant people who think they can take the RJ Lee Group's data and interpret it into something that the RJ Lee Group wouldn't support???
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RJ Lee are highly experienced credentialed experts, but Christopher knows the truth because he is a truther and RJ Lee are brainwashed thats why Chris believes they will just believe impossible things because they read it in a newspaper like fire melting steel.
 
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chrismohr said:
Tens of thousands, according to Eric Swartz of the EPA in 2001.
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The RJ lee Group Dust Signature 2004
Page 9
It is estimated that 50,000 personal computers were destroyed, with each containing approximately four pounds of lead.

ETA:
The amount of energy introduced during the generation of the WTC Dust and the ensuing conflagration caused various components to vaporize. Vapor phase components with high boiling point and high melting point would have, as they cooled, tended to form precipitated particles or thin film deposits on available surfaces through condensation mechanisms. The results of this process would be the presence of a thin layer of deposited material on the surfaces of the dust particulate matter. Many of the materials, such as lead, cadmium, mercury and various organic compounds, vaporized and then condensed during the WTC Event.

Elevated temperatures may have been caused by the collapse but not 3100oF
 
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