Merged "Iron-rich spheres" - scienctific explanation?

[sheeplesnshills]

Iron melts at 2800^oF. This is a fact, not an assertion.

So you keep stating ad nauseum........your assertion is that the iron they found was pure iron not some alloy, was preciously in solid bars not tiny particles, was not already in the concrete, construction dust etc, that your assumed max office fire temperature is correct, that it was not freed when other materials burned.

and that somehow your assertion is of more value than RJ Lees statement that such iron is "expected". Unless they "expected" the use of your fantasy accelerants then why on earth would I trust you over them? It would be like believing a Baptist Pastor over Richard Dawkins on the origin of species!

 

[Christopher7]

So, do any of you twoofers want to comment on why it is significant that lead was vaproized?

RJ Lee Group:
The presence of lead oxide on the surface of mineral wool indicate the existence of extremely high temperatures during the collapse.

Any lead vapors created by the fires would have left the building with the smoke. The fires were snuffed out by the collapse but even if you claim that they were not there was only about 12 seconds for large amounts of lead to be vaporized. This means that temperatures at or close to 3182^oF were attained during the collapse.

 

[DGM]

RJ Lee Group:
The presence of lead oxide on the surface of mineral wool indicate the existence of extremely high temperatures during the collapse.

Any lead vapors created by the fires would have left the building with the smoke. The fires were snuffed out by the collapse but even if you claim that they were not there was only about 12 seconds for large amounts of lead to be vaporized. This means that temperatures at or close to 3182^oF were attained during the collapse.

Do you think this line of argument will ever get you anywhere?

You have to admit, so far............................not so much.

 

[sheeplesnshills]

RJ Lee Group:
The presence of lead oxide on the surface of mineral wool indicate the existence of extremely high temperatures during the collapse.

nonsense, they indicate high temps during the impact, fires, collapse and subsequent debris pile fire.

Any lead vapors created by the fires would have left the building with the smoke.

and condensed on anything cooler they touched on the way out

The fires were snuffed out by the collapse

Thats a bare face lie. The fires burned for 90 days or more.

but even if you claim that they were not there was only about 12 seconds for large amounts of lead to be vaporized.

baseless assertion. you have no way to know when the lead was vaporized.

"This means that temperatures at or close to 3182^oF were attained during the collapse."

baseless assertion. you have no way to know when the lead was vaporized.

 

[Christopher7]

]No one has offered an explanation of the statement "iron melted during the WTC event", just rejections of that statement and alternate explanations of when the iron spheres were created.

Have you asked RJ Lee about it? Its their report and your assertion.

Iron melts at 2800^oF. This is a fact, not an assertion.

it will be interesting to know exactly why iron microspheres are created in big fires

There is no data to confirm that iron microspheres are created in any quantity in normal office fires.

You just cherry picked "iron melting" and ignored "expected". Until you can show that its not "expected"

I have answered this several times on this thread.

"Considering the high temperatures reached during the destruction of
the WTC, the following three types of combustion products would be expected to be present in WTC Dust."

"The presence of lead oxide on the surface of mineral wool indicate the existence of extremely high temperatures during the collapse."


They were considering the extremely high temperatures, high enough to vaporize large quantities of lead.

 

[NoahFence]

RJ Lee Group:
The presence of lead oxide on the surface of mineral wool indicate the existence of extremely high temperatures during the collapse.

Any lead vapors created by the fires would have left the building with the smoke. The fires were snuffed out by the collapse but even if you claim that they were not there was only about 12 seconds for large amounts of lead to be vaporized. This means that temperatures at or close to 3182^oF were attained during the collapse.

LOL

The fires were snuffed out by the collapse.

UH HUH.

So were firefighters just watering the plants for A HUNDRED DAYS after the fact?


Please acknowledge that the RJ Lee group said there was melted iron AND that it was expected.

How'd the explosives survive?

Please answer that in another thread.

 

[sheeplesnshills]

Iron melts at 2800^oF. This is a fact, not an assertion.

Stop being disingenuous. No one is disputing that the melting point of lead under specified condition is 2800F.

There is no data to confirm that iron microspheres are created in any quantity in normal office fires.

And no data (other than of course RJ Lee ) that it is isn't.......

I have answered this several times on this thread.

"Considering the high temperatures reached during the destruction of
the WTC, the following three types of combustion products would be expected to be present in WTC Dust."

"The presence of lead oxide on the surface of mineral wool indicate the existence of extremely high temperatures during the collapse."


They were considering the extremely high temperatures, high enough to vaporize large quantities of lead.

expected past participle, past tense of ex·pect (Verb)
Verb:

Regard (something) as likely to happen. Regard (someone) as likely to do or be something.

 

[NoahFence]

Serious question, Chris 7:

Is English your first language? If not, that would explain a lot. There are some words such as "expected" that you seem to have issue with.

It means that the RJ Lee group saw these particles, and thought nothing of them considering the circumstances of the event.

Please ackowledge that you understand what they (your experts) mean by "expected"

 

[BasqueArch]

Iron melts at 2800^oF. This is a fact, not an assertion.

There is no data to confirm that iron microspheres are created in any quantity in normal office fires.

I have answered this several times on this thread.

"Considering the high temperatures reached during the destruction of
the WTC, the following three types of combustion products would be expected to be present in WTC Dust."

"The presence of lead oxide on the surface of mineral wool indicate the existence of extremely high temperatures during the collapse."


They were considering the extremely high temperatures, high enough to vaporize large quantities of lead.

Every electronic device in the WTC would have had lead in them. RoHS was not yet in effect at that time so lead solder and lead with almost every component would have been released in the fire. I work in the Computer industry and was involved in the business of getting almost all lead (and cadmium etc) out of all the component parts.......it was in almost everything to some degree.......

Given the size of the buildings there were likely to be tons of lead from that source alone.

Further more there was at least one large UPS installation in WTC (IIRC) with tons more and in a facility that likely was fully charged and released large amounts of energy when the fire reached it or when the building fell.

And these extremely high temperatures, high enough to vaporize large quantities of lead were caused by placing the Thermxte bombs at computers, other electronic equipment, lead backup batteries and bathrooms.

 

[Christopher7]

RJ Lee Group:
The presence of lead oxide on the surface of mineral wool indicate the existence of extremely high temperatures during the collapse.

nonsense, they indicate high temps during the impact, fires, collapse and subsequent debris pile fire.

Well there you go. You hand wave the RJ Lee Group report as "nonsense".

and condensed on anything cooler they touched on the way out

But not on the all the microscopic fibers that were created during the collapse.

The fires were snuffed out by the collapse

Thats a bare face lie. The fires burned for 90 days or more.

The "fires" that lasted for 100 days were actually the molten metal but we are getting off topic. I should have qualified that the fires in the impact zone were snuffed out.

but even if you claim that they were not there was only about 12 seconds for large amounts of lead to be vaporized. This means that temperatures at or close to 3182^oF were attained during the collapse.

baseless assertion. you have no way to know when the lead was vaporized.

That was the RJ Lee Group's assertion.

 

[NoahFence]

Originally Posted by sheeplesnshills
nonsense, they indicate high temps during the impact, fires, collapse and subsequent debris pile fire.

Well there you go. You hand wave the RJ Lee Group report as "nonsense".

He did not. Stop being dishonest FOR ONCE.

and condensed on anything cooler they touched on the way out

But not on the all the microscopic fibers that were created during the collapse.

It appears your response was English, but the words don't make sense when put together.

The fires were snuffed out by the collapse

Quote:
Thats a bare face lie. The fires burned for 90 days or more.

The "fires" that lasted for 100 days were actually the molten metal but we are getting off topic. I should have qualified that the fires in the impact zone were snuffed out.

You're wrong.

That was the RJ Lee Group's assertion.

No, that's your dishonest quote-mined version of RJ Lee Group's assertion.

They also assert that it was EXPECTED. Still having issues with the definition, or are you being willfully dishonest, again?

SAY - how'd the explosives survive?

They didn't. Because they were never there.

 

[sheeplesnshills]

Well there you go. You hand wave the RJ Lee Group report as "nonsense".

Stop lying. You are not fooling anyone.

"But not on the all the microscopic fibers that were created during the collapse.

prove that........

The "fires" that lasted for 100 days were actually the molten metal but we are getting off topic. I should have qualified that the fires in the impact zone were snuffed out.

LOL really? so where did all that smoke come from? and smoke and ash/dust would keep coming from the fires until they were finally extinguished. Please show that the dust RJ tested was not deposited until after the collapse dust had long settled out.

That was the RJ Lee Group's assertion.

so they are right about the iron and lead but wrong about it being expected? ??? you wants your cake and to eat it........

 

[Christopher7]

"Considering the high temperatures reached during the destruction of
the WTC, the following three types of combustion products would be expected to be present in WTC Dust."

"The presence of lead oxide on the surface of mineral wool indicate the existence of extremely high temperatures during the collapse."


They were considering the extremely high temperatures, high enough to vaporize large quantities of lead.

Do you think this line of argument will ever get you anywhere?

Certainly not with people in denial but an objective reader will understand.

 

[NoahFence]

so they are right about the iron and lead but wrong about it being expected? ??? you wants your cake and to eat it........

Answer that, christopher7.

YES OR NO

 

[DGM]

Certainly not with people in denial but an objective reader will understand.

So it only works with people that think like you? Why do you think the RJ Lee guys are not "truthers" supporting you?

 

[Christopher7]

Please show that the dust RJ tested was not deposited until after the collapse dust had long settled out.

RJ Lee Group:
Under ordinary circumstances dust in a building would have multiple sources and occur in a random distribution with no recognizable geographical pattern. Furthermore, the dust in occupied, unoccupied, and inaccessible locations would be expected to be different in composition because occupied spaces are frequently cleaned and use conditioned air; unoccupied spaces are not routinely cleaned and are not often climate controlled, and inaccessible spaces (e.g., wall cavities, above ceilings) often contain construction material debris. Despite these environmental differences the dust in the Building was found to be the same in occupied, non-occupied and inaccessible spaces.

The dust in the below gash sector relative to the top of the Building is 10 times higher than the average concentration at the top whereas the lead and other metals are comparable to each other in the two sectors.

so they are right about the iron and lead but wrong about it being expected? ??? you wants your cake and to eat it........

You are the one saying they are wrong, not me.

 

[Christopher7]

So it only works with people that think like you?

It only works with people who think.

 

[NoahFence]

You are the one saying they are wrong, not me.

Not a yes or no answer.

wow. truther dishonesty. Shocking.


No kiddo - you claim they're wrong. You do this every time you ignore the fact that they said this stuff was expected. Expected - that means it's not a surprise. If ONLY thermite could do what was done, that would be UNexpected. And they would have raised the red flag.

They didn't.

This presents you with a bit of a conundrum, no? That they "admitted" these massive temperatures but don't care.

 

[DGM]

It only works with people who think.

So not the RJ Lee guys?

 

[sheeplesnshills]

Certainly not with people in denial but an objective reader will understand.

In denial about what? That expected means....well.....expected?

Almost every reader will not know much about melting points of metals and the formation of microspheres and lead vapors (just like you) but they will understand what "expected" means (unlike you)............