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"Executed" corpses dumped in restive Syrian city

ANTPogo said:
If only boyntonstu would return to this thread and explain why he wrote "executed" when that word isn't used anywhere in his linked article...
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Because that question has been burning in my mind. :) /sarcasm
 
The rebellion against Assad seems to hold the elements of a civil war, if those so rebelling can stay the course.

I do not understand the OP being surprised at the response of the autocratic government to a rebellion. The apple did not fall far from the tree.
 
I understand Russia has a big naval base in Syria.
They might not want to risk losing that in case of a power change.
 
boyntonstu said:
Why is Russia an ally with Assad?
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Well when a religious minority gets locked into a fight for its survival against overwelming numbers someone is bound to have a soft spot for them.
 
geni said:
Well when a religious minority gets locked into a fight for its survival against overwelming numbers someone is bound to have a soft spot for them.
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Particularly in that part of the world.

Well played, geni. :D
 
geni said:
Well when a religious minority gets locked into a fight for its survival against overwelming numbers someone is bound to have a soft spot for them.
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Is that really how you characterize Russia's support for Assad's brutal crackdown of dissenters?

A sort of compassionate support for the underdog?
 
angrysoba said:
Is that really how you characterize Russia's support for Assad's brutal crackdown of dissenters?

A sort of compassionate support for the underdog?
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He might have been making a joke, or a wry observation about a religious minority in that region, or, he might have been playing it straight about the Alawites who are the party in charge in Syria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawi

Look it up. It's an interesting situation. The Assad's are part of an Alawite led faction who seem to have the political leverage in Syria, and intend to maintain it.
 
Russia's ailing economy is dependant on selling arms to regimes that nobody else will.
 
angrysoba said:
Is that really how you characterize Russia's support for Assad's brutal crackdown of dissenters?

A sort of compassionate support for the underdog?
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No but it is a supprisingly valid take on the situation. If the sunni win then the Alawi are going to suffer. A lot. The Christians are unlikely to do to well either.

Yazidi are really background noise at this point and Jews are at the level of a rounding error so unlikely to feature in anything other than the odd left wing colour piece.

In practice Russia's position is mostly about appearing to be politically distant from the US.
 
WildCat said:
Using the word "execute" to refer to a murder has been a pet peeve of mine. It implies a legitimacy to the killing unwarranted by the facts.

John Gacy was executed, the bodies dumped on the street were murdered.
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Execution is also used to describe capturing someone, then killing them. Did these guys go down fighting or under a military attack?
 
Darth Rotor said:
He might have been making a joke, or a wry observation about a religious minority in that region, or, he might have been playing it straight about the Alawites who are the party in charge in Syria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawi

Look it up. It's an interesting situation. The Assad's are part of an Alawite led faction who seem to have the political leverage in Syria, and intend to maintain it.
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geni said:
No but it is a supprisingly valid take on the situation. If the sunni win then the Alawi are going to suffer. A lot. The Christians are unlikely to do to well either.

Yazidi are really background noise at this point and Jews are at the level of a rounding error so unlikely to feature in anything other than the odd left wing colour piece.

In practice Russia's position is mostly about appearing to be politically distant from the US.
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Yeah, I know about the Alawites but I was a bit taken aback because I have indeed heard from Assad supporters that it is highly necessary to do everything possible to avoid a massacre including massacring the opposition. This is usually followed by a statement that Assad is universally loved by the Syrian people.
 
angrysoba said:
This is usually followed by a statement that Assad is universally loved by the Syrian people.
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That statement has been in error for about as long as it's been used.

Doubly so for his dad.

Who said it first: "It is better to be feared than to be loved."

Nicolo knew a thing or two, methinks ... and any number of autocrats have put his ideas into practice. From the wikipedia summary on Machiavelli ...

Cruelty vs. mercy
{Getting the balance right is real bugger, eh? }

In addressing the question of whether it is better to be loved or feared, Machiavelli writes, “The answer is that one would like to be both the one and the other; but because it is difficult to combine them, it is far safer to be feared than loved if you cannot be both.”
As Machiavelli asserts, commitments made in peace are not always kept in adversity; however, commitments made in fear are kept out of fear. Yet, a prince must ensure that he is not feared to the point of hatred, which is very possible.
...

Machiavelli’s famous idea that it is better to be feared than loved[32] – his justification is purely pragmatic; as he notes, “Men worry less about doing an injury to one who makes himself loved than to one who makes himself feared.” Fear is simply a means to an end, and that end is security for the prince.

The fear instilled should never be excessive, for that could be dangerous to the prince. Above all, Machiavelli argues, a prince should not interfere with the property of their subjects, their women, or the life of somebody without proper justification.​
 
WildCat said:
Using the word "execute" to refer to a murder has been a pet peeve of mine. It implies a legitimacy to the killing unwarranted by the facts.
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"executed" just adds "in cold blood" to the end of "murdered"

legitimacy is an entirely different thing.
 
WildCat said:
You have evidence of legal procedures being followed?
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No no, the point is that it's not a matter of language but rather of viewpoint. Here in Europe an execution in general is a criminal act since we just don't have legal executions. ;)
 
Oliver said:
No no, the point is that it's not a matter of language but rather of viewpoint. Here in Europe an execution in general is a criminal act since we just don't have legal executions. ;)
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The Kymer Rouge "executed" in the millions of people, through "process of law" - was that legitimate?

The Khmer Rouge regime arrested and eventually executed almost everyone suspected of connections with the former government or with foreign governments, as well as professionals and intellectuals.

According to Michael Vickery, 750,000 people in Cambodia in a population of about 8 million died due to disease, overwork, and political repression. However many scholars disregard his claims because the number of victims of execution found in the mass graves is higher than his estimate for deaths from all causes during the rule of the Khmer Rouge and the civil war combined.[7]

The most widely accepted estimate, from scholar Ben Kiernan, is that about 1.7 million people were killed. It is described by the Yale University Cambodian Genocide Program as, "one of the worst human tragedies of the last century."[8] Researcher Craig Etcheson of the Documentation Center of Cambodia suggests that the death toll was between 2 and 2.5 million, with a "most likely" figure of 2.2 million.

After 5 years of researching some 20,000 grave sites, he concludes that, "these mass graves contain the remains of 1,386,734 victims of execution."[7]

Execution is believed to have accounted for about 30–50% of the death toll. This would indicate 2.5 to 3 million deaths, but normal mortality over this period would have accounted for about 500,000 deaths—subtracting this from the total sum, we arrive at Etcheson's range for the number of "excess" deaths attributable to the Khmer Rouge regime
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_Fields#Accusations_of_genocide
 
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