IAEA inspections underway in Iran

Or electricity. Or nuclear isotopes for modern medicine. Gee, what else could a country want nuclear technology for? Obviously the ONLY possibility is to wage a suicidal nuclear war agaisnt someone who already has 400+ nuclear warheads :rolleyes:

But their musso's and we all know their craaaaaazy :eye-poppi

Nope, if they needed it for electricity they could settle for a legally binding deal to import fuel. That solution has the added benefit of not putting Iran in crosshairs and prevents any sanctions, and is thus much (much, MUCH) better for their economy - so electricity is completely off the table. In addition they refine uranium to a point beyond what is needed for power generation, so it's doubly so.
I'm quite sure that had Iran requested medical material (which they already import by the way) to be added to the list, the answer would be yes. Iran instead opted to refuse the deal completely. Do you have another option perhaps?

2 pathetic strawmen by the way.

McHrozni
 
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You cherry-picked two parts of two, and since you conveniently left out which two were there, I can't reply. That doesn't refute what I said in any way :)

McHrozni

Well, considering you just link dumped a bunch of reports and told me to pick one you can't really complain. And, yes, it does refute what you've said, no matter how much you try to deny it :)
 
No, they could indeed use it to fuel a nuclear powered fleet that would rival the US Navy.

Powering a fleet is not what you claimed. You claimed that Iran is "refining uranium to a point where it can only be used in nuclear weapons" (my bold)

Unless you can provide some indication they intend to spend a few entire GDPs on investments in a naval force, however, your 'argument' is quite invalid I'm afraid.

I haven't presented either an 'argument' or an argument.

I have simply pointed out that your claim is wrong.

You have presented no evidence that justifies your claim.
 
Powering a fleet is not what you claimed. You claimed that Iran is "refining uranium to a point where it can only be used in nuclear weapons" (my bold)

Yes and I admit I was wrong. There is another option, which I mentioned above. It is mind-bogglingly absurd, but you were still right in repeatedly pointing out this horrible mistake, etc etc etc.

McHrozni
 
Well, considering you just link dumped a bunch of reports and told me to pick one you can't really complain.

I'm not complaining about you choosing two of your own liking, but you also cherry-picked them and then failed to tell which two you chose. All of those reports claim Iran is cooperating on something, but Iran needs to cooperate with everything :)

McHrozni
 
Why is nuclear enrichment so important to Iran? The NNPT stipulates there need to be appropriate measures to ensure the programs are peaceful and a 10 year treaty to provide Iran with nuclear fuel they need is a very good compromise. But Iran wants to enrich it's own uranium and is willing to pay heavy economic price for it. Why?

McHrozni

Independence. The same reason China make its own GPS system and the EU also do it. You do not get to be accountable to others.
 
Independence. The same reason China make its own GPS system and the EU also do it. You do not get to be accountable to others.

Here's one flaw in your reasoning: there is no international treaty, nor any basis for a treaty, that would limit GPS-type systems (you forgot Russia by the way). This alone is enough to make this a false equivalence.

Another is that unless your argument is that Iran is spending quite a bit of money, international prestige and is flirting with the possibility of being attacked, to the point of building the facilities to withstand airstrikes, in order to ... make a statement?
If that were true - and I don't think it is - it would be reason enough to keep the nuclear material out of their hands. The same reason can be used to keep SMGs out of hands of 10-year olds.

McHrozni
 
Here's one flaw in your reasoning: there is no international treaty, nor any basis for a treaty, that would limit GPS-type systems (you forgot Russia by the way). This alone is enough to make this a false equivalence.

Another is that unless your argument is that Iran is spending quite a bit of money, international prestige and is flirting with the possibility of being attacked, to the point of building the facilities to withstand airstrikes, in order to ... make a statement?
If that were true - and I don't think it is - it would be reason enough to keep the nuclear material out of their hands. The same reason can be used to keep SMGs out of hands of 10-year olds.

McHrozni

so you would have no problem breaking a treaty?
 
Let's take the latest, from november 2011 - paragraphs 43-45, 48, 52 and 53.
Your thoughts (if any)?

McHrozni

43-45 is not about the safeguards
48-53 is about the voluntary additional protocol, wich was implemented but they stopped it, do you know why?

aah but footnote 36 makes your claim atleast supported. thanks.
 
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43-45 is not about the safeguards

If Iran had proper safeguards, such articles wouldn't appear. You didn't even address the others in any way that would hint at denying them, so I'll assume you're conceding them.

I take it you now agree that preventing Iran from nuclear enrichment at this time is in line with the NNPT?

McHrozni
 
Independence. The same reason China make its own GPS system and the EU also do it.
This.
I'm not a big fan of Iranian foreign policy, but something deemed too important to forego can reasonably be too important to depend on others. I can see how fuel assurance for important infrastructure [power grid] for such a long-term committment [power plant implementation, life, and replacement time] could fall in that category.

so you would have no problem breaking a treaty?
Treaties are like roses and young girls: They last while they last. The tricky part is making sure the other side honors the treaty or keeping your affairs in order if they don't. A treaty might not be a good deal for a party that can't do at least one of those. To put it another way, the better question is how much problem which side will have if either side breaks the treaty.

Suppose Iran agrees to forego its own enrichment in return for foreign fuel supply agreements. If they commit a major part of their power infrastructure to that fuel supply, they're vulnerable to disruption (legal or not) for as long as it takes them to replace those facilities (it'll take a while), establish their own fuel supplies (claimed as the issue at hand), or restore supply agreement compliance (legally or forcibly). If they don't commit a major part of their power infrastructure to that fuel supply, they don't get whatever benefits it offers.

Considered in that light, that fuel supply agreement starts to sound like a PR exercise. Sure, everybody's happy if both sides honor the treaty. If Iran doesn't honor such a treaty, the other side just stops sending fuel and nobody's worse off than without the treaty. If Iran honors the treaty and the other side doesn't, Iran's hosed -- their nuclear power generation infrastructure is worth less. That doesn't seem like a great treaty from Iran's perspective, unless they've got some way to compel the other side to comply (hint: yet another piece of paper probably won't make the grade).

Suppose Iran agrees to enrich its own fuel under conditions of inspection to verify it's not for weaponry. The other side wants Iran's compliance ensured (e.g. satisfactory inspections) or enforced (boom?).

Considered in that light, Iran allowing anything less than unfettered access to inspectors under such agreement starts to sound like a PR exercise. Again, everybody's happy if both sides honor the treaty. If Iran honors the treaty and the other side doesn't, nobody's worse off than without the treaty. If the other side honors the treaty but Iran doesn't, the other side's hosed -- Iran enriches weapons-grade fuel. That wouldn't seem like a great treaty from the other side's perspective, unless they've got some ways to compel Iran to comply (oh, wait...)
 
middle eastern country who's name starts with IRA
check
militant against neighbouring democracies
check
leadership all seen as lunatics in the west
check
fundamentalist law being practiced
check
inspectors on the ground finding nothing suspicious
check

isn't it about time the Americans were put in charge of the peace talks, it worked wonders the last time
:D
 
This.
I'm not a big fan of Iranian foreign policy, but something deemed too important to forego can reasonably be too important to depend on others. I can see how fuel assurance for important infrastructure [power grid] for such a long-term committment [power plant implementation, life, and replacement time] could fall in that category.
(...)

This drivel makes one wonder how Iran, a major exporter of oil, gas and electricity, could possibly survive without nuclear power. Ludicorus.

McHrozni
 
I never knew a nation run by lunatics having access to nuclear weapons was so important to so many people.
 
Yes and I admit I was wrong. There is another option, which I mentioned above. It is mind-bogglingly absurd, but you were still right in repeatedly pointing out this horrible mistake, etc etc etc.

McHrozni

Thanks, at last.


This drivel makes one wonder how Iran, a major exporter of oil, gas and electricity, could possibly survive without nuclear power. Ludicorus.

Peak Oil. Iran's oil production is in decline.

'Global Oil Production Update - A Strange Future Has Arrived'

"This is why I am not concerned about an attack on Iran now. Peak Oil. Any attack on Iran or disruption to supply will end everything. There is no elasticity anywhere in the supply chain. And suddenly, every government in the world gets a dose of reality as all industrial nations choke on the lies they have been spewing for decades about how much oil there is and who's going to provide it." - Michael C Ruppert



~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

'Iranian Aircraft Carriers in the Gulf of Mexico'
 
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This drivel makes one wonder how Iran, a major exporter of oil, gas and electricity, could possibly survive without nuclear power. Ludicorus.

McHrozni


So why was America building the a reactor back in the 70's?

Why is the UAE building a reactor and preparing itself for a post-oil future?

Yeah, ludicrous, astute analysis brah :rolleyes:
 

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