Merged "Iron-rich spheres" - scienctific explanation?

[Edx]

No. You keep ignoring what they said: "iron melted during the WTC event, producing spherical metallic particles." not "the spheres were created by the friction of steel framework falling".

RJ Lee said it was expected.

Why would they say that Christopher? Why do you keep ignoring that?

They did not imply there was impossible temperatures imply some kind of exotic incendiary. They casually tell us that it was expected.

 

[Christopher7]

The firefighters were the ones saying it was probably going to collapse. They had engineers also look at it. There are dozens and dozens of examples of them talking about it.

If you bother to read the firefighter statements, only 3 said they thought it would collapse and that was based on what the "engineer" said. All the rest heard it thru the grapevine.

But hey, why doesnt a single firefighter have a dissenting view to this engineer?

They had just seen the Trade Towers collapse.

Why didnt anyone question it in over a decade? Why cant you even find a firefighter that was surprised it collapsed? Why cant you find a firefighter that said they thought the collapse zone was unnecessary?

Maybe some have and we just haven't heard about it.

The firefighters have to be in on it OR they are simply mindless incompetent drones.

You said that, not me.

 

[plague311]

You said that, not me.

It's your line of reasoning that brings us to his statement. He's saying that by the evidence you've provided, those 2 options are the only outcome.

Are you seriously this daft?

I'm sorry for you sir

 

[Edx]

If you bother to read the firefighter statements, only 3 said they thought it would collapse and that was based on what the "engineer" said. All the rest heard it thru the grapevine.

Here's a small sampling... Do any of them sound like they thought it was strange that 7 is likely to collapse? Seems like just this is way more than 3. Are they all in on it or just mindless drones?

"At this point Seven World Trade was going heavy, and they weren't letting anybody get too close. Everybody was expecting that to come down "- Firefighter Vincent Massa

"Just when you thought it was over, you're walking by this building and you're hearing this building creak and fully involved in flames. It's like, is it coming down next? Sure enough, about a half an hour later it came down"- FDNY Lieutenant James McGlynn

"The major concern at that time was number Seven, building number Seven, which had taken a big hit from the north tower. When it fell, it ripped steel out from between the third and sixth floors across the facade on Vesey Street. We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing" - FDNY Chief Frank Fellini

"Five World Trade Center was fully involved, Six World Trade Center was roaring pretty good, and behind them Seven World Trade Center was teetering on collapse. "- Richard Picciotto, FDNY Battalion Commander

"They backed me off the rig because Seven was in dead jeopardy, so they backed everybody off and moved us to the rear end of Vesey Street. We just stood there for a half hour, 40 minutes, because "Seven was in imminent collapse and finally did come down. - Firefighter Thomas Smith

"Chief Nigro directed me to continue monitoring conditions at the site. Specifically to monitor number 7 World Trade Center. We were very concerned with the collapse potential there, and to do whatever I could do to ensure site safety in that no additional people became injured. "- FDNY Deputy Chief Harold Meyers

Then we were just hanging out watching building 7 ready to go." - Firefighter Steve Piccerill

"7 World Trade Center? I couldn’t even watch that. I said that’s enough. I refused to watch that. I took R-and-R. I said you guys can watch that one. "- Battalion Chief Frank Vallebuona

They had just seen the Trade Towers collapse.

uh, so? Are they gullible morons as well? You are saying that experts can easily see that the towers were demolitons, that there was no reason to think WTC7 would collapse. Why were they SO concerned about 7? You guys are the ones that say the firefighters thought there were bombs in WTC1 and 2, so lets assume they did, why is it they thought fire and damage were going to bring down 7?

Maybe some have and we just haven't heard about it.

Absense of evidence is evidence? LOTS of firefighters have spoken about 7 and NONE of them even hint that they either disagreed with any of the decisions of opinons on how to handle WTC7's fire OR that they were even surprised that it collapsed. Most of them say the exact opposite of what you say happened, so that makes them liars or incompetent brainless drones. There is a reason no truthers ever quote them because they dont say what truthers would wish they said.

You said that, not me.

No, you did when you suggest that they only follow and believe opinions of conspirators ignoring all their training and expertise in fires.

 

[NoahFence]

Watch as C7 and the rest of his buddies ignore the fact that all their 'theories' are irrelevant due to the fact that nothing contributory to the collapses would ever survive the instant after impact.

Watch as they pass over the fact that 2 other planes crashed that day.

Funny, if it weren't so sad.

 

[Christopher7]

Credible, say they max at 1800.

That is a general statement. Find where it says it got that hot in the trade Towers.

I am not sure it melted much, but I do know it was weakened.

Denial of the RJ lee report finding. "iron melted"

Are you saying that there was no friction between the falling steel framework while it was falling? Or are you saying that the spheres couldn't have been created during the framework falling? It's fairly clear that the falling is part of the "event"

Spheres may be made by friction but not the huge amounts that RJ Lee found. Post your source please.

 

[Edx]

Denial of the RJ lee report finding. "iron melted"

Denial of the RJ Lee report, they said iron microspheres were expected.

Spheres may be made by friction but not the huge amounts that RJ Lee found. Post your source please.

So why did they casually say the spheres were expected if they knew the towers were actually demolished with themite because the temperatures otherwise would be impossibe?

Around and around we go!

 

[plague311]

That is a general statement. Find where it says it got that hot in the trade Towers.

ChrisMohr says:
1.) We both agree that if there were only natural fires at play, the maximum temperature of most of the fires would be between 1400-1800 degrees.

You said:
"I would agree to the 1400 degrees. I know of no credible evidence for temperatures above that."

So...I found you a solid source, you said nothing about WTC. Also, you would have to be completely void of any mental process to think that a "natural" fire would be hotter than the WTC fires. WTC has jet fuel, computers, paper, carpet, etc. All of that made the fire hotter.

Denial of the RJ lee report finding. "iron melted"

I was referring to steel, not iron. I am sure it's completely plausible iron melted. Fires were burning for a substantial period of time post collapse.

Spheres may be made by friction but not the huge amounts that RJ Lee found. Post your source please.

Uhm, I didn't make a statement that required a source. I asked 2 questions, and the last part "It's fairly clear that the falling is part of the "event"" cannot possibly be refuted. The collapse is part of the event.

 

[Christopher7]

Here's a small sampling... Do any of them sound like they thought it was strange that 7 is likely to collapse?

Correction, 3 firefighters [McGlynn, Fellini and Nigro] thought the building would collapse based on their observation, one [Hayden] heard it from the "engineer". All the rest heard it thru the grapevine.

uh, so? Are they gullible morons as well?

That came out of your head.

You are saying that experts can easily see that the towers were demolitons, that there was no reason to think WTC7 would collapse. Why were they SO concerned about 7?

They had just seen the Trade Towers fall and hundreds of their brothers were dead.

Absense of evidence is evidence? LOTS of firefighters have spoken about 7 and NONE of them even hint that they either disagreed with any of the decisions of opinons on how to handle WTC7's fire OR that they were even surprised that it collapsed. Most of them say the exact opposite of what you say happened,

Battalion Chief John Norman I looked at 7 World Trade Center. There was smoke showing, but not a lot and I’m saying that isn’t going to fall.
I never expected it to fall the way it did as quickly as it did, 7.

There's one more but people like you gave him so much grief that he doesn't want his name mentioned.

so that makes them liars or incompetent brainless drones.

Stop saying that. They were in shock and grief striken. They are heroes for carrying on in spite of that.

BTW: No one could have predicted that WTC 7 would collapse due to the failure of column 79. The fires had not even reached that area when they decided to pull back.

 

[Christopher7]

Denial of the RJ Lee report, they said iron microspheres were expected.

So why did they casually say the spheres were expected if they knew the towers were actually demolished with themite because the temperatures otherwise would be impossibe?

Around and around we go!

Indeed. May I recommend "Rosie's Remedial Reader"?

Go back and read my posts. I answered that.

 

[plague311]

Stop saying that. They were in shock and grief striken. They are heroes for carrying on in spite of that.

You got some brass balls dude.

 

[Christopher7]

ChrisMohr says:
1.) We both agree that if there were only natural fires at play, the maximum temperature of most of the fires would be between 1400-1800 degrees.

You said:
"I would agree to the 1400 degrees. I know of no credible evidence for temperatures above that."

So...I found you a solid source, you said nothing about WTC.

What do you think we are talking about?

Also, you would have to be completely void of any mental process to think that a "natural" fire would be hotter than the WTC fires. WTC has jet fuel, computers, paper, carpet, etc. All of that made the fire hotter.

Jet fuel burns at 500-600 degrees in open air and the smoke was black indicating a low temperature fire in the towers.
http://mepetroleum.com/jet_fuel.htm

I was referring to steel, not iron.

Steel is 98% iron. Both would produce iron rich spheres.

I am sure it's completely plausible iron melted. Fires were burning for a substantial period of time post collapse.

A fire can burn forever at 2000 degrees and never melt steel or iron.

 

[Christopher7]

You got some brass balls dude.

Ya got that part right.

First time you've been right so far.

 

[twinstead]

Ya got that part right.

First time you've been right so far.

But since you're totally wrong about the collapses, it just means that you have tenacity in the face of an untenable position.

That is nothing to be proud of

 

[plague311]

Jet fuel burns at 500-600 degrees in open air and the smoke was black indicating a low temperature fire in the towers

Classic fail. The color of the smoke indicates nothing about the temp of the fire. Not even close. It's more related to what it's burning, this has been proven time and time again. I didn't know inside a building, down elevator shafts, etc. is considered open air. Source?

Ya got that part right.

First time you've been right so far.

It wasn't a compliment, and I've found that people like you generally overcompensate.

Steel is 98% iron. Both would produce iron rich spheres.

Uhm, thanks? It's rather irrelevant, but I suppose it's handy if someone didn't already know that. I was referring to the melting, but once again, thanks.

 

[plague311]

I sit here in my office, and I think to myself.

"Hey self?"

"yessir"

"If truthers admit that, pretty much, everything that makes up the WTC can produce iron-rich spheres, 2 of those gigantic buildings came down consisting of hundreds of thousands of tons of steel\iron, a report says that the level of spheres found was "expected", how come CTists are arguing with it?"

"Dunno"

"k"

 

[ozeco41]

Well, I wasn't "politically correct" here But why should be always really polite in this absurd internet drama? ..

Understood and agreed.

...I know that we can't generally shift the truthers' minds with the results of the planned Jim Millette's research on the red-gray chips from the dust. But, to say in some highflown manner, we (debunkers and generally rational skeptics) owe this real reserach to ourselves

I understand and respect your viewpoint which many share. I also contributed to the funding of the research.

My personal position is different. I have no need for the research. I have been interested in answering the question "Demolition or not?" My answer since mid 2007 has been "No demolition!" for the twin towers and add the same finding for WTC7 a little later. That answer rests securely on multiple strands of evidence and the truth movement has never made a supportable counter claim that merits serious consideration. So "thermXte" and "iron microspheres" are redundant in that context and I don't need to have the explanations for either.

Hence my oft repeated statement - "it wouldn't matter if there was a 100 tonne stockpile of thermxte on site - there was no demolition". Repeat same claim for "microspheres" - they too are irrelevant. (And I can restate those claims in politically correct scientific terminology if I am really pressed. )

 

[NoahFence]

Everything I've ever written about 9/11

Irrelevant.

Nothing you people can invent on a whim can even survive the instant after impact, therefore, no controlled demo, therefore what really happened is what's left.

Iron microspheres?

Who cares.

Pull it?

Who cares.

Therm*te?
Who cares.

All irrelevant. Your movement is irrelevant. 9/11 conspiracy theories are the single easiest CTs to debunk. As I said before, a retarded, drooling salamander could prove you wrong. So what's that make you people? LESS!!!

 

[ozeco41]

I sit here in my office, and I think to myself.

"Hey self?"

"yessir"

"If truthers admit that, pretty much, everything that makes up the WTC can produce iron-rich spheres, 2 of those gigantic buildings came down consisting of hundreds of thousands of tons of steel\iron, a report says that the level of spheres found was "expected", how come CTists are arguing with it?"

"Dunno"

"k"

Maybe they are "trolling" for "bites" and people are responding???

 

[plague311]

Maybe they are "trolling" for "bites" and people are responding???

Yeah, what can I say? I'll admit I'm a bit of a sucker for replying.