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The Genesis Seal

Lucian said:
Exactly. [Chretien of Troyes] seems to have encountered Celtic stories that filtered into France through Brittany, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was proficient in a Celtic language. And the idea that he was fiddling around with the Hebrew opening of Genesis rearranged into a grid....
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The clue is in the appelation 'of Troyes'.
  • Troyes had been the home of the famous Rabbi, Rashi, who is renowned for his incisive commentaries on the Hebrew Torah.
  • Troyes was where the Church Council was held that gave the Templars their official Ordo status. This was attended by Stephen Harding, the English Cistercian monk whose chief claim to fame was his expertise in translating Hebrew texts.
  • Troyes was the origin of the Templars, who were posted to Jerusalem, where they mingled with indigenous Jews, some no doubt with expertise in ancient Hebrew (in fact the only kind of Hebrew to exist at that time, as it was a dead language).
Chretien of Troyes was the first person ever to use the term Graal (Grail) explicitly, a practise that was taken up by Wolfram von Eschenbach. Though they wrote about the Grail in very similar terms, there are important differences that the Genesis Seal is able to bridge.
Both the Templars and the Cathars were reputed to possess fabulous treasures with the common characteristic that they included ancient manuscripts that some commentators suggest were Hebrew. The Cathar treasure was also said to include the Holy Grail, while that of the Templars included the Ark of the Covenant and other artifacts of Solomon's Temple. It is more likely the treasures (apart from the manuscripts) were a smoke-screen created by the Church, or to help in recruiting to the Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars.
This is a rushed summary, but fits the known facts while filling in some long-standing historical enigmas.
 
Kingfisher2926 said:
The clue is in the appelation 'of Troyes'.
  • Troyes had been the home of the famous Rabbi, Rashi, who is renowned for his incisive commentaries on the Hebrew Torah.
  • Troyes was where the Church Council was held that gave the Templars their official Ordo status. This was attended by Stephen Harding, the English Cistercian monk whose chief claim to fame was his expertise in translating Hebrew texts.
  • Troyes was the origin of the Templars, who were posted to Jerusalem, where they mingled with indigenous Jews, some no doubt with expertise in ancient Hebrew (in fact the only kind of Hebrew to exist at that time, as it was a dead language).
Chretien of Troyes was the first person ever to use the term Graal (Grail) explicitly, a practise that was taken up by Wolfram von Eschenbach. Though they wrote about the Grail in very similar terms, there are important differences that the Genesis Seal is able to bridge.
Both the Templars and the Cathars were reputed to possess fabulous treasures with the common characteristic that they included ancient manuscripts that some commentators suggest were Hebrew. The Cathar treasure was also said to include the Holy Grail, while that of the Templars included the Ark of the Covenant and other artifacts of Solomon's Temple. It is more likely the treasures (apart from the manuscripts) were a smoke-screen created by the Church, or to help in recruiting to the Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars.
This is a rushed summary, but fits the known facts while filling in some long-standing historical enigmas.
Click to expand...

In a Romance, with the emphasis on romance.
 
Marduk said:
which source text have you used ?
yes i know Genesis, but from which version of the bible
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I am working with the standardised Masoretic redaction that was completed in the 11th Century AD. More important than the actual version is the fact that the Genesis Seal is formed from only 64 letters, which means it would have been relatively immune to accidental errors in the centuries before the Masoretes. I say this because any scribe copying a Torah scroll would probably be most alert at the start than, say, after an 8 hour shift.
 
Kingfisher2926 said:
The clue is in the appelation 'of Troyes'.
  • Troyes had been the home of the famous Rabbi, Rashi, who is renowned for his incisive commentaries on the Hebrew Torah.
  • Troyes was where the Church Council was held that gave the Templars their official Ordo status. This was attended by Stephen Harding, the English Cistercian monk whose chief claim to fame was his expertise in translating Hebrew texts.
  • Troyes was the origin of the Templars, who were posted to Jerusalem, where they mingled with indigenous Jews, some no doubt with expertise in ancient Hebrew (in fact the only kind of Hebrew to exist at that time, as it was a dead language).
Chretien of Troyes was the first person ever to use the term Graal (Grail) explicitly, a practise that was taken up by Wolfram von Eschenbach. Though they wrote about the Grail in very similar terms, there are important differences that the Genesis Seal is able to bridge.
Both the Templars and the Cathars were reputed to possess fabulous treasures with the common characteristic that they included ancient manuscripts that some commentators suggest were Hebrew. The Cathar treasure was also said to include the Holy Grail, while that of the Templars included the Ark of the Covenant and other artifacts of Solomon's Temple. It is more likely the treasures (apart from the manuscripts) were a smoke-screen created by the Church, or to help in recruiting to the Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars.
This is a rushed summary, but fits the known facts while filling in some long-standing historical enigmas.
Click to expand...

Yes, you've said this before. None of it is evidence that Chretien knew Hebrew or rearranged the opening letters of Genesis into a grid pattern to find the Not-Yet-Holy Grail. The fact that there was a Rabbi in Troyes is not evidence that Chretien knew Hebrew.
 
dafydd said:
In a Romance, with the emphasis on romance.
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By chance, quite perceptive. This quote comes from Wiki:

Chrétien has been termed “the inventor of the modern novel” and Karl Uitti argues:

With [Chrétien’s work] a new era opens in the history of European story telling…this poem reinvents the genre we call narrative romance; in some important respects it also initiates the vernacular novel

He would hardly have written an explicit critique of the Genesis Seal, unless he had become tired of life.
 
Kingfisher2926 said:
By chance, quite perceptive. This quote comes from Wiki:

Chrétien has been termed “the inventor of the modern novel” and Karl Uitti argues:

With [Chrétien’s work] a new era opens in the history of European story telling…this poem reinvents the genre we call narrative romance; in some important respects it also initiates the vernacular novel

He would hardly have written an explicit critique of the Genesis Seal, unless he had become tired of life.[
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Conspiracy theories and paranoia now. You check out as a woo all the way down the line. When will the secret agents come gunning for you? Get help. He just wrote a story.
 
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Lucian said:
Yes, you've said this before. None of it is evidence that Chretien knew Hebrew or rearranged the opening letters of Genesis into a grid pattern to find the Not-Yet-Holy Grail. The fact that there was a Rabbi in Troyes is not evidence that Chretien knew Hebrew.
Click to expand...
It is part of the circumstantial evidence. It belongs to a pattern (there's that word again) of something more extensive. Chretien would not have needed to be fluent in Hebrew when he was surrounded by people who had probably done the ground work for him, or who could answer his curiosity.
 
Until now I thought that the Corn Gods thread was the stupidest thing that I had ever seen here, and that is in the face of some very stiff competition, but this thread is almost as funny.
 
Kingfisher2926 said:
It is part of the circumstantial evidence. It belongs to a pattern (there's that word again) of something more extensive. Chretien would not have needed to be fluent in Hebrew when he was surrounded by people who had probably done the ground work for him, or who could answer his curiosity.
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Which people? Stop making it all up. The pattern only exists in your fevered imagination.
 
Kingfisher2926 said:
By chance, quite perceptive. This quote comes from Wiki:

Chrétien has been termed “the inventor of the modern novel” and Karl Uitti argues:

With [Chrétien’s work] a new era opens in the history of European story telling…this poem reinvents the genre we call narrative romance; in some important respects it also initiates the vernacular novel

He would hardly have written an explicit critique of the Genesis Seal, unless he had become tired of life.
Click to expand...

What?

Kingfisher2926 said:
It is part of the circumstantial evidence. It belongs to a pattern (there's that word again) of something more extensive. Chretien would not have needed to be fluent in Hebrew when he was surrounded by people who had probably done the ground work for him, or who could answer his curiosity.
Click to expand...

No, this doesn't even count as circumstantial evidence. There was a Talmud/Tanakh scholar in Troyes (who seems to have died before Chretien was active); Stephen Harding was in Troyes for a bit (also seems to have died before Chretien was active); there were Templars in Troyes who might have known some Hebrew. It doesn't really add up to much.
 
Lucian said:
What?



No, this doesn't even count as circumstantial evidence. There was a Talmud/Tanakh scholar in Troyes (who seems to have died before Chretien was active); Stephen Harding was in Troyes for a bit (also seems to have died before Chretien was active); there were Templars in Troyes who might have known some Hebrew. It doesn't really add up to much.
Click to expand...

It adds up to less than zero.
 
Holy crap was that a crazy response...

Troyes had been the home of the famous Rabbi, Rashi, who is renowned for his incisive commentaries on the Hebrew Torah.
Troyes was where the Church Council was held that gave the Templars their official Ordo status. This was attended by Stephen Harding, the English Cistercian monk whose chief claim to fame was his expertise in translating Hebrew texts.
Troyes was the origin of the Templars, who were posted to Jerusalem, where they mingled with indigenous Jews, some no doubt with expertise in ancient Hebrew (in fact the only kind of Hebrew to exist at that time, as it was a dead language).
Click to expand...

1. The Rabbi bit would be useful if there was any evidence that Chretien knew him or any Jew.
2. Stephen Harding would have been long dead by the time Chretien came around.
3. There is no evidence that the Templars had anyone who could read "ancient" Hebrew.

BTW... there is no such thing as "ancient" Hebrew. There are about 6 different dialects that come in at different times and places.

You just keep making stuff up. Why not aliens? You have as much evidence for aliens as you have for your Genesis Seal or anything else.

Maybe the Genesis Seal was studied by dragons. I can't prove it.. there is no evidence to indicate it... but it does have a subtle beauty...

Both the Templars and the Cathars were reputed to possess fabulous treasures with the common characteristic that they included ancient manuscripts that some commentators suggest were Hebrew. The Cathar treasure was also said to include the Holy Grail, while that of the Templars included the Ark of the Covenant and other artifacts of Solomon's Temple. It is more likely the treasures (apart from the manuscripts) were a smoke-screen created by the Church, or to help in recruiting to the Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars.
Click to expand...

Wrong.

Why would the Church manufacture stories about the Templars to recruit for the Albigensian Crusade? That's just pointless.

Further... it has nothing to do with your seal in any way.


He would hardly have written an explicit critique of the Genesis Seal, unless he had become tired of life.
Click to expand...

Why not?

The Cathars at the time of Chretien were doing very well, and they were seen as a challenge to the Church.

So far your historical claims only reveal that you know very little of the subject.
 
After much research I found a legitamate document with hidden messages.

word1.gif


:jaw-dropp
 
Kingfisher2926 said:
I am working with the standardised Masoretic redaction that was completed in the 11th Century AD. More important than the actual version is the fact that the Genesis Seal is formed from only 64 letters, which means it would have been relatively immune to accidental errors in the centuries before the Masoretes. I say this because any scribe copying a Torah scroll would probably be most alert at the start than, say, after an 8 hour shift.
Click to expand...

You don't think that the Septuagint would have been a better choice then as it was closer to the original and said to be divinely inspired. Your choice of text dates to the 11th century AD.

how do you account for these differences. Red is the Masoretic, green is the Septuagint
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth.
Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep
But the earth was unsightly and unfurnished, and darkness was over the deep,
and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters.
and the Spirit of God moved over the water
And God said: 'Let there be light.' And there was light.
And God said, Let there be light, and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good;
And God saw the light that it was good
and God divided the light from the darkness.
and God divided between the light and the darkness.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night, and there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

with even small differences capable of destroying your claim, it suddenly becomes apparent that the author of the genesis seal was a Masoretic scribe in the 11th C,
i.e. the seal won't work with any subtle variation in words at all the way that you have outlined it, the differences in the second line athough subtle would throw out all the connections following it

;)
 
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