VotGs said:
DOC,
I am one of those lurkers/readers you claim the JREF forum is trying to sway with 'empty posts'.
I was raised Christian, and left the faith--but most of my family is still in it. I am always interested in -new- information in the historicity of things in the Bible, as its a nice, relatively neutral topic to discuss with my family.
However, in the last two years since I joined this forum, I've noticed your threads over....and over....and over....and over....and over...again.
The first time I clicked on the last page of one to see what the arguments were, I -did- wonder if you had just gotten lost in your own argument, and they were being a little unfair. I know that people I care about who truly believe tend to have good points, though shaky logic/historical accuracy.
....and then I read from the beginning. I have, in fact, read -this- thread from the beginning, because it -claimed- to have new facts, the exact sort of thing I was interested, as I stated above.
I have followed your arguments, and the JREF arguments. Everytime this thread pops back up, I keep -hoping- for something that's solid. Something that will actually....make me question?
I am an open skeptic. I would have -loved- to have been convinced of God's love during my tour in Iraq. It failed to happen. I would have been thrilled to have been convinced of God's love when my father died suddenly two Thanksgivings ago. It failed to happen.
If God had reached out, this past year, during my nervous breakdown, I would have taken -that- with open arms, as I needed someone badly to help me out. It was neither God nor religion--it was the Veteran's Administration that helped me out.
And yet I do wander about, seeking more information. If I'm wrong about being an atheist, I'd love to know.
This thread stated that was its aim--to give actual evidence. I looked eagerly for it, and found -none-.
By this stage of the thread, JREFers are exhausted with your ephemerality...there's nothing solid in your arguments, nothing that belief -should- be built on. Even seekers such as myself, who hope for a nugget of -something- that they could build at least a comforting half-assed agnosticism out of....
Yeah, we get nothing out of your arguments. Nothing. I -am- the person you are supposedly reaching out to. All I ask is something -solid-, something -true-, something that I can have trust in....
Well thanks for your post. All I can say is keep on seeking. The bible says seek and ye shall find, knock and the door will open. And it says to be persistent at it too. For some people it just takes time. I've said this maybe twice in the last 2 years and that is I used to be an atheist when I was in my early to mid 20's. I even read a couple issues of Atheist magazine and can even remember telling someone that the bible is just a book written by 4 guys. I was raised Catholic but never really read the bible much.
Then one day when I was about 26. I was in a fleebag motel room watching TV and Kenneth Copeland came on TV. I couldn't tell you 2 words he said that day but I know something changed in that motel room and then I started to read the bible seriously for the first time. And it amazed me -- the words, there was a whole new world that opened up to me. It did not come overnight it was more of a process. Christian TV helped build my faith over time, whereas some people get more from church.
My advice would be to just keep reading the New testament especially the four gospels, Maybe watch Christian TV if its in your area. And remember I"m not perfect, I don't have all the answers, but I've looked at most of the world's philosophies and religions including the
Buddism and atheism and you know what won out. I've been in these threads for almost 2 years now and have had about 27 religious threads and my faith is still strong in spite of all the argumentative and personal attacks I've received. That in itself says something about the power of Christianity. As I've said many times I'm just putting info out there. I rarely talk about hell. Maybe once or twice in two years. What people do with the info I put out there is there business. But I do believe (and I'm not talking to you but to some of the others) there does come a time when it's too late, when there is no turning back. It's kind of like some of the transients you see on the street. There are some of them that are too far gone.
Give me that, and I'll return to church. But please, -quit- claiming that JREFers are trying to sway people like me.
Some, I do believe are trying to do that, especially the ones who continually personally attack me and my threads in posts without giving any reasoned explanation in that post.
It's you who are reaching out to the 'anonymous' and saying that we are too terrified of JREFers scarcasm to post in agreement with you.
I never said anything like that, although it might be true. But it might be best for someone new in Christianity not to face off against some of these people until you are strong, confident, and well read in your faith; as well as in other world philosophies. This might take many years to get to this level. But if you're a new Christian go with your gut, and God through the Holy spirit will give you wisdom if you seek it and pray about it.
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