JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

[Tomtomkent]

So to sumarise:
No evidence of a second shooter.
No evidence of shots fored anywhere from the front.
No evidence of the autopsy being a fraud.
No evidence of the autopsy photographs being faked, tampered with or altered..
No evidence of the z film being faked, tampered with or altered.
No evidence of the bullets, rifle or fingerprints being planted, let alone the prints being taken from a corpse.
No evidence of (or need for) the back yard photos being "impossible", tampered with, faked, or altered.
No evidence of any kind to support any claim.

Yes robert was right to declare "checkmate" at his own defeat. Shame he thought that meant he could "win".

 

[Walter Ego]

How about simply proving your claim LHO attended military language school and spoke fluent Russian on arrival in Moscow?

That little factoid, scribbled on one of Robert's flashcards, comes straight from conspiracy huckster Harrison Livingstone.

The Office of Naval Intelligence contacted Oswald while at Atsugi sometime during 1958. Oswald then taught himself fluent Russian in his first year as a Marine. No ordinary Marine could possibly have the time to do that without going to a high-powered military language School [sic].

High Treason, p. 139 (Carroll & Graf, 1998)

The reality? On February 25, 1959, during his Marine service and seventeen months after he began his self-directed "crash course" in Russian, Oswald took an Army Russian equivalency examination. In reading, writing and understanding the language, he scored "poor" in all categories, with his overall language marks also "poor." (Warren Commission testimony of Lt. Col. Allison Folsom, WC Vol. VIII, p. 307)

Marina Oswald stated that at the time she met Oswald in Minsk in March of 1961 not knowing Oswald was American she thought he might be from one of the Soviet Baltic republics because in the Baltics they don't speak Russian very well."

So much for that "high-powered military language school."

ETA:
Livingstone cannot even get Oswald's service record correct. Oswald joined the Marines in October of 1956 so his "first year" of service would have been October '56 to October '57. He did not arrive in Atsugi, Japan, until March of 1958. Livingstone's wording implies that Oswald's alleged Russian language training followed his arrival in Atsugi during his "first year" of service.

 

[Robert Prey]

That little factoid, scribbled on one of Robert's flashcards, comes straight from conspiracy huckster Harrison Livingstone.



The reality? On February 25, 1959, during his Marine service and seventeen months after he began his self-directed "crash course" in Russian, Oswald took an Army Russian equivalency examination. In reading, writing and understanding the language, he scored "poor" in all categories, with his overall language marks also "poor." (Warren Commission testimony of Lt. Col. Allison Folsom, WC Vol. VIII, p. 307)

Marina Oswald stated that at the time she met Oswald in Minsk in March of 1961 not knowing Oswald was American she thought he might be from one of the Soviet Baltic republics because in the Baltics they don't speak Russian very well."

So much for that "high-powered military language school."

ETA:
Livingstone cannot even get Oswald's service record correct. Oswald joined the Marines in October of 1956 so his "first year" of service would have been October '56 to October '57. He did not arrive in Atsugi, Japan, until March of 1958. Livingstone's wording implies that Oswald's alleged Russian language training followed his arrival in Atsugi during his "first year" of service.

Frivolous, pointless minutia. But where is your retraction for Crenshaw the "liar"????

 

[vtbub]

I keep waiting for Phil Hendrie to pop out and say, "Gotcha!", but that's not going to happen.

Robert, how were LBJ and Hunt involved?

 

[Tomtomkent]

Frivolous, pointless minutia.

Frivolous: No, based on available data.
Pointless: No, it completely disproves your assertion.
Minutia: Again, no, because it directly disproves your asseertion.


Where is your material evidence Robert? For the shot from the front, the second shooter, frangible bullet, or photo-fakery. We are still waiting for you to be abale to support any part of your conspiracy theory with something, anything, other than opinions and subjective statements.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Frivolous, pointless minutia. But where is your retraction for Crenshaw the "liar"????

Inane waffling. Try again without shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[Walter Ego]

Frivolous, pointless minutia. But where is your retraction for Crenshaw the "liar"????

It was your "frivolous, pointless minutia" that Oswald was sent to a language school to learn Russian. It was in your "I Luv Lee" post. Remember? I was merely demonstrating that you snapped up Livingstone's hogswoggle hook, line and sinker.

Oswald claimed to be a Marxist, but actually was a loyal patriotic American who loved his country, loved his president, was a former US Marine, worked for Naval Intelligence, as well as an operative for CIA and FBI, was sent to USSR after having been sheep dipped as a disloyal American, but never revoked his citizenship, was apparently sent to language school so that he could speak fluent Russian, then sent to USSR so that he could spy for the US. While he made a big splash with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, he was also working with anti-Castro groups at the same time. Someday, when the full truth is accepted, he should be posthumously awarded the Medal of Freedom.

Crenshaw lied when he said LBJ told him on the phone in the Parkland operating room to "kill the S.O.B." (i.e., Oswald) as recounted by Livingstone and Gary Shaw (Crenshaw and Oliver Stone's "adviser"). He made the same "kill the S.O.B" statement directly to Gus Russo. He was fibbing when he said the prank call to Parkland was LBJ demanding he extract a confession from Oswald. He couldn't resist "improving" his story with the "kill the S.O.B" claim.

This has already been discussed. Move on.

 

[Robert Prey]

It was your "frivolous, pointless minutia" that Oswald was sent to a language school to learn Russian. It was in your "I Luv Lee" post. Remember? I was merely demonstrating that you snapped up Livingstone's hogswoggle hook, line and sinker.

According to the WR, Mariana said what she said about Oswald's Russian. He spoke so well she thought he was a native from a Baltic Country. Your own hogswoogle is false. Nor did Livingstone ever make any such assertion, other than mere conjecture or referring to what others had said.

 

[Robert Prey]

Crenshaw lied when he said LBJ told him on the phone in the Parkland operating room to "kill the S.O.B." (i.e., Oswald) as recounted by Livingstone and Gary Shaw (Crenshaw and Oliver Stone's "adviser"). He made the same "kill the S.O.B" statement directly to Gus Russo. He was fibbing when he said the prank call to Parkland was LBJ demanding he extract a confession from Oswald. He couldn't resist "improving" his story with the "kill the S.O.B" claim.
This has already been discussed. Move on.

You've already made the accusation of 5 fold hearsay without source attribution. Phyllis Bartlett proved you wrong as to the phone call itself yet you still claim Crenshaw lied. You have lost all credibility until you admit your mistake.

 

[Robert Prey]

I keep waiting for Phil Hendrie to pop out and say, "Gotcha!", but that's not going to happen.

Robert, how were LBJ and Hunt involved?

See Hunt's Deathbed Confession:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bknUDgKdEJQ

 

[Robert Prey]

Frivolous: No, based on available data.
Pointless: No, it completely disproves your assertion.
Minutia: Again, no, because it directly disproves your asseertion.


Where is your material evidence Robert? For the shot from the front, the second shooter, frangible bullet, or photo-fakery. We are still waiting for you to be abale to support any part of your conspiracy theory with something, anything, other than opinions and subjective statements.

Until you can produce some of that "material evidence' for your own assertions, you have lost all credibility.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Until you can produce some of that "material evidence' for your own assertions, you have lost all credibility.

Which assertions?

I think that statement is more relevant to yourself Robert. I shall repeat the question, and this time see if you can answer it, we shall make it real simple, you just have to answer yes or no. Then you may earn some credibility to lose (you have never had any):

Can you produce any material evidence to support your claims in this thread?

 

[RoboTimbo]

Until you can produce some of that "material evidence' for your own assertions, you have lost all credibility.

Bang! LOL.

 

[TheRedWorm]

Maybe it would be a better use of time and energy if we all simply responded to rob's postings with a lol...

 

[BaaBaa]

That little factoid, scribbled on one of Robert's flashcards, comes straight from conspiracy huckster Harrison Livingstone.



The reality? On February 25, 1959, during his Marine service and seventeen months after he began his self-directed "crash course" in Russian, Oswald took an Army Russian equivalency examination. In reading, writing and understanding the language, he scored "poor" in all categories, with his overall language marks also "poor." (Warren Commission testimony of Lt. Col. Allison Folsom, WC Vol. VIII, p. 307)

Marina Oswald stated that at the time she met Oswald in Minsk in March of 1961 not knowing Oswald was American she thought he might be from one of the Soviet Baltic republics because in the Baltics they don't speak Russian very well."

So much for that "high-powered military language school."

ETA:
Livingstone cannot even get Oswald's service record correct. Oswald joined the Marines in October of 1956 so his "first year" of service would have been October '56 to October '57. He did not arrive in Atsugi, Japan, until March of 1958. Livingstone's wording implies that Oswald's alleged Russian language training followed his arrival in Atsugi during his "first year" of service.

Maybe it's something fictional I picked up from 'Libra" but LHO was dyslexic as well, was he not?

 

[Tomtomkent]

So just in case Robert missed it before the material evidence produced for "my" assertions include, but are not limited to:
The rifle
The pistol
The shell casings
The bullet fragments
The z film, polaroid and other photos
The autopsy photographs, "pre" or otherwise, uncropped
The skull fragments, blood stains, finger prints and forensic materials.

Documentary evidence includes the reports, autopsy, statements, interviews, and records kept b efore, during and after the event and course of investigation. These are secondary to material evidence.

Robert produces only selective documentary evidence, out of context, that often failsto support his claim under any form of scrutiny. His material evedince consists entirely of excuses for not producing material evidence.

My lack of credibility should not enter the equation. He either has material evidence to produce, or he has no reason to expect his assertions to convince anybody.

 

[Walter Ego]

Maybe it's something fictional I picked up from 'Libra" but LHO was dyslexic as well, was he not?

Oswald was thought to be dyslexic because of his poor spelling and writing skills. He also displayed the behavioral manifestations of a learning disability including impulsiveness and erratic behavior.

Oswald was never officially diagnosed with dyslexia which was poorly understood in the 1950s. His inadequate language skills could have been the result of his lack of formal education. He was a high school dropout and a truant for much of the time before he dropped out.

If he was dyslexic, it didn't stop him from reading. He was an avid consumer of books, magazines and newspapers.

 

[Robert Prey]

So just in case Robert missed it before the material evidence produced for "my" assertions include, but are not limited to:
The rifle
The pistol
The shell casings
The bullet fragments
The z film, polaroid and other photos
The autopsy photographs, "pre" or otherwise, uncropped
The skull fragments, blood stains, finger prints and forensic materials.

Documentary evidence includes the reports, autopsy, statements, interviews, and records kept b efore, during and after the event and course of investigation. These are secondary to material evidence.

Robert produces only selective documentary evidence, out of context, that often failsto support his claim under any form of scrutiny. His material evedince consists entirely of excuses for not producing material evidence.

My lack of credibility should not enter the equation. He either has material evidence to produce, or he has no reason to expect his assertions to convince anybody.

But what is your "material" evidence as defined by you? Reports, statements, interviews, according to your definition do not qualify.

 

[Robert Prey]

Maybe it's something fictional I picked up from 'Libra" but LHO was dyslexic as well, was he not?

Walter wrote: "In one of her interviews with Gerald Posner, Marina said she did not know Oswald was an American when she first met him and thought he might be from the Baltic because "they speak with accents" and "they don't speak Russian very well, they have different nationalities than the Russians." (Posner: pp. 64-65)

Walter's assertion that

"Marina Oswald stated that at the time she met Oswald in Minsk in March of 1961 not knowing Oswald was American she thought he might be from one of the Soviet Baltic republics because in the Baltics they don't speak Russian very well." Does not come from the Warren Report, but from Gerald Posner, a documented serial liar. The WR only states that she thought he was from one of the Baltic states because of his accent. In other words, she had no clue from his speech that he was an American. The WR goes on to say ""She stated that his only defects were that his grammar was sometimes incorrect and that his writing was never good." Nothing about "not speaking Russian very well." That is a Posner interpolation.

Take away all of Walter's Posner derived assertions, and his bag of Lone Nutter evidence comes up virtually empty.

 

[Tomtomkent]

But what is your "material" evidence as defined by you? Reports, statements, interviews, according to your definition do not qualify.

Oh is that why I listed the reports, statements and interviews seperately as Documentary Evidence? Because they are documentary evidence and not material evidence?

Let me repeat what the material evidence is (as I can't see why you have to ask after the quoting the list):

The rifle (a material object, not a report, statement or interview)
The pistol (a material object, not a report, statement or interview)
The shell casings (a material object, not a report, statement or interview)
The bullet fragments (a material object, not a report, statement or interview)
The z film, polaroid and other photos (material objects, not a report, statement or interview)
The autopsy photographs, "pre" or otherwise, uncropped (material objects, not a report, statement or interview)
The skull fragments, blood stains, finger prints and forensic materials.(material objects, not a report, statement or interview)


Has that clarified the matter Robert? Those are material objects, that can be considered evidence. They are material evidence.