UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

[Akhenaten]

Q. How many mundane things did the UFOlogists eliminate before deciding that the Campeche oil rigs were OMGAliens?
A. I saw that one developing and my opinion was reserved pending further information, so count me out.

Q. How many mundane things did Maccabee eliminate before deciding a photograph of an optical mouse was OMGAliens?
A. Even if that were true, photos don't prove anything anyway. So again count me out.

Q. How many mundane things did Jenny Randles eliminate before deciding that a lighthouse was OMGAliens?
A. If this is about the Rendlesham Forest enounter. There have been recreations and studies of the event that cast doubt on the lighthouse theory. So I don't think we can conclusively say the lighthouse was the cause of all the observations made during that incident. We also don't have definitive proof of alien craft either. So again count me out.

Q. How many mundane things did Lynne D. Kitei eliminate before deciding that some flares and a squadron of planes were OMGAliens?
A. If this one is about the Phoenix Lights case, then there are some lights that appear to be flares and probably are flares, but there are also other reports not based on the film of what look like flares going down behind a mountain. Accounts of a large object going nearly overhead and blocking out the stars. Is this proof enough to conclude this case involved alien visitation? No. Again count me out.

Why is it that not one of your answers has any numbers in it?

As for thousands of other sightings, the great majority have been classed as misidentification of known objects or phenomena by ufologists, and every ufologist I've ever seen has echoed that sentiment.

You say this as though the opinions of ufailogists and the funny noises echoing around in their empty little heads have some significance in the real world.

What a daft idea.

So even if some do make mistakes, the idea that ufologists typically jumpt to the conclusion that every report represents an alien craft is pure propoganda.

No propoganda is needed. The fact that some ufologists (ie. you) jump to the conclusion that any reports at all represent alien craft is quite damning enough.

 

[Paul2]

Ufo, thanks for you direct reply to my questions. I'll have time to respond soon.

Paul

 

[GeeMack]

Why is it that not one of your answers has any numbers in it?

It is odd, isn't it? There is something about the alleged research and evidence presented by "ufologists" which is very much like that presented by various other crackpots and pseudo-scientists. There is that obvious lack of quantitative analysis, like a number-phobia. They'll talk all sciency, bandying about terms like probability and calculate, but when it's time to walk the walk, nothin'. It's almost as if applying a quantitative objective analysis might spell doom for their claims.

 

[Akhenaten]

It is odd, isn't it? There is something about the alleged research and evidence presented by "ufologists" which is very much like that presented by various other crackpots and pseudo-scientists. There is that obvious lack of quantitative analysis, like a number-phobia. They'll talk all sciency, bandying about terms like probability and calculate, but when it's time to walk the walk, nothin'. It's almost as if applying a quantitative objective analysis might spell doom for their claims.

Could we be looking at pseudoscience ( wankery )?

 

[carlitos]

pseudoscience ( wankery )?

 

[I Am He]

That all depends on what you mean by "turned out to be" ... Plenty of reports have been judged to have been accurate accounts of craft of unknown origin ... and since the word "alien" is a synonym for "unknown" and does not necessitate extraterrestrial, it's perfectly legitimate usage. So in this context, plenty of objects in UFO reports have "turned out to be" alien craft.

Since it's obvious that your understanding of English is lacking people have been asking you. 'Where in our human experience has it ever been shown that alien craft even exist?' Not: That depends on what you mean Blab Blab Blab bobbin-weaving non answer.




I Am He

 

[Jocce]

That all depends on what you mean by "turned out to be" ... Plenty of reports have been judged to have been accurate accounts of craft of unknown origin ... and since the word "alien" is a synonym for "unknown" and does not necessitate extraterrestrial, it's perfectly legitimate usage. So in this context, plenty of objects in UFO reports have "turned out to be" alien craft.

Sure. If you define alien as "I don't know what that was" then there are plenty of observations of alien objects. Meanwhile, in world outside ufology....

ETA:And still nothing to add on that other comment?

 

[AdMan]

That all depends on what you mean by "turned out to be" ... Plenty of reports have been judged to have been accurate accounts of craft of unknown origin ... and since the word "alien" is a synonym for "unknown" and does not necessitate extraterrestrial, it's perfectly legitimate usage. So in this context, plenty of objects in UFO reports have "turned out to be" alien craft.

No. We have not agreed that "alien," as you are using the term is a synonym for "unknown," so you can stop saying that is a given.

Will you stop redefining terms, and pretending that others agree with your redefinitions?

You can't even convince other UFO nuts to agree with your redefinitions--why do you continue to insist that skeptics agree with your nonsense?

 

[Toke]

Ufology,
How come we never got an answer to why you limit yourself to just alien crafts, others have been able to identify 57 varieties of aliens?

 

[Krikkiter]

[qimg]http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/Proofometer.jpg[/qimg]​

That graphic looks very familiar.

 

[23_Tauri]

That all depends on what you mean by "turned out to be" ...

Re-inventing words again, foo? In the Ufology Rrredefinictionary, "turned out to be" doesn't actually mean "turned out to be". Uh huh, I geddit....

Plenty of reports have been judged to have been accurate accounts of craft of unknown origin ...

Check out the highlighty bit, foo. There's your problem.

and since the word "alien" is a synonym for "unknown" and does not necessitate extraterrestrial, it's perfectly legitimate usage.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."

So in this context, plenty of gullible ufologists have believed that objects in UFO reports have "turned out to be" alien craft.

ftfy

Have you taken me off your ignore list yet, fol, or is this just for everyone else's benefit?

 

[23_Tauri]

It's an absolute stand-out, isn't it?

Almost sig worthy.

The similarity between those seeking the god of the gaps and those looking for the alien flying saucers of the gaps is quite striking.

And those aliens just don't look like they're going to budge out of folo's gaps, do they? Not for all the elbow grease in the galaxy.

 

[Stray Cat]

Q. How many mundane things did the UFOlogists eliminate before deciding that the Campeche oil rigs were OMGAliens?
A. I saw that one developing and my opinion was reserved pending further information, so count me out.

Q. How many mundane things did Maccabee eliminate before deciding a photograph of an optical mouse was OMGAliens?
A. Even if that were true, photos don't prove anything anyway. So again count me out.

Q. How many mundane things did Jenny Randles eliminate before deciding that a lighthouse was OMGAliens?
A. If this is about the Rendlesham Forest enounter. There have been recreations and studies of the event that cast doubt on the lighthouse theory. So I don't think we can conclusively say the lighthouse was the cause of all the observations made during that incident. We also don't have definitive proof of alien craft either. So again count me out.

Q. How many mundane things did Lynne D. Kitei eliminate before deciding that some flares and a squadron of planes were OMGAliens?
A. If this one is about the Phoenix Lights case, then there are some lights that appear to be flares and probably are flares, but there are also other reports not based on the film of what look like flares going down behind a mountain. Accounts of a large object going nearly overhead and blocking out the stars. Is this proof enough to conclude this case involved alien visitation? No. Again count me out.

As for thousands of other sightings, the great majority have been classed as misidentification of known objects or phenomena by ufologists, and every ufologist I've ever seen has echoed that sentiment. So even if some do make mistakes, the idea that ufologists typically jumpt to the conclusion that every report represents an alien craft is pure propoganda.

So blatant avoidance of the actual questions aside...

...How many Scotsmen do you need to put in a row before you find a true one?

Or perhaps one which you can not exclude yourself from (not that the original question was about you at all but more about your claim of other UFOlogists, a claim you have failed to support).

How many mundane things did J Randall Murphy eliminate before deciding that a light in the distance was OMGAliens?

 

[Akhenaten]

That graphic looks very familiar.

I made it in April last year for a response to a bloke called "golfy" who was convinced that he could use a lie detector and the mysterious power of catship to demonstrate his telepathic powers.

He appears to have left the building, which is almost a pity.

linky​

 

[Stray Cat]

I made it in April last year for a response to a bloke called "golfy" who was convinced that he could use a lie detector and the mysterious power of catship to demonstrate his telepathic powers.

He appears to have left the building, which is almost a pity.

linky​

Oooo look, a golf links.

 

[John Albert]

To the above I would say "No" because there is no scientific reason alien craft cannot exist, and given the number and quality of reports and studies done in the modern age, it is unreasonable to deny they exist.

Do you have any evidence (real evidence, not just stories, anecdotes or "reports") to back up this assertion?

Otherwise, there's no reason to believe they do exist, and just assuming they do on the weight of mere stories is a jump to conclusion.

Modern day official conclusions don't deny UFOs exist, they merely deem they are "no threat to national security" or that they "don't represent technological developments outside the range of present-day knowledge", both of which do not preclude their existence nor their advanced nature.

Evidence?

Because we still don't know where they come from, and all investigations have failed to identify the "unknowns" as coming from our own civilization, they are alien in nature.

That's the same old jump to conclusion you've been making all along, that you simply refuse to acknowledge no matter how many times we point it out to you. You're making an argument from ignorance.

...almost anything can be within the "range" of knowledge ... even back then. What isn't within our range is the engineering capability. In other words, we know it's real so it must be scientifically possible, but that doesn't mean we can duplicate it ... yet.

In contrast, there is no "range of scientific knowledge" that explains the supernatural. It is by definition outside that possibility, and if it ever is shown to be within the realm of scientific plausibility, then it will no longer be supernatural.

The above statements make no sense.

You're back to mincing words I see.

 

[Garrison]

In other words, not being a threat doesn't mean they don't exist, and almost anything can be within the "range" of knowledge ... even back then. What isn't within our range is the engineering capability. In other words, we know it's real so it must be scientifically possible, but that doesn't mean we can duplicate it ... yet.

This just demonstrates your ignorance of basic science. There are certain things that physics rules out, for example a perpetual motion machine is impossible according to the laws of physics and that won't change however good your engineering capability is. The same applies to a number of the features exhibited by alleged 'alien craft' so in terms of science they are every bit as supernatural as witches or ESP.
More likely of course the witnesses simply made wildly inaccurate assessments of the behaviour of what they were seeing, much like you did with your sighting, and then embellish it under the influence of believers or websites like your own. Or simply because they can't bear to admit there's a mundane explanation they create extra details to rule them out, as you've frequently done in this thread.

 

[Resume]

So even if some do make mistakes, the idea that ufologists typically jumpt to the conclusion that every report represents an alien craft is pure propoganda.

Given the lack of any objective physical evidence in favor of OMG(WTF)Aliens, one should never come to that conclusion. Not based on a report (anecdote;claim.)

 

[John Albert]

Only prejudicial willfully ignorant people would deny that UFOs exist or that one of the synonyms for "unknown" is "alien"

As usual, you're committing a fallacy of equivocation, misusing a word totally out of context in an attempt to bolster your failed argument.

Just because the word "alien" appears in some thesaurus under the heading "unknown," that does not mean that any unknown things may be assumed by definition to be extraterrestrial. While it is basically true that "alien" is sometimes used as a synonym for "unknown," it is also true that such usage is only proper under specific circumstances, eg. when referring to people or geographic terrain.


Allow me to post a number of definitions from the Web, just to prove that you're once again engaging in a dishonest semantic fallacy:

un·known (ŭn-nōn)

adj.

1. Not known; unfamiliar: a modern-day problem unknown in earlier times.
2. • Not identified or ascertained: received flowers from an unknown admirer.
   • Not established or verified.
3. Not well known or widely known: an unknown artist.

n.

1. • A person or thing that is unknown: "the abyss of the unknown" (Helena Petrovna Blavatsky).
   • A person who is not well known, as to the general public: cast an unknown in the starring role.
2. Mathematics A quantity of unknown numerical value.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

______________________________________________

unknown [ʌnˈnəʊn]

adj

1. not known, understood, or recognized

2. not established, identified, or discovered an unknown island

3. not famous; undistinguished some unknown artist
unknown quantity a person or thing whose action, effect, etc., is unknown or unpredictable​

n

1. an unknown person, quantity, or thing

2. (Mathematics) Maths a variable, or the quantity it represents, the value of which is to be discovered by solving an equation; a variable in a conditional equation 3y = 4x + 5 is an equation in two unknowns

unknownness n​

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

______________________________________________

1. A code meaning "information not available."
2. An unidentified target. An aircraft or ship that has not been determined to be hostile, friendly, or neutral using identification friend or foe and other techniques, but that must be tracked by air defense or naval engagement systems.
   
3. An identity applied to an evaluated track that has not been identified. See also assumed friend; friend; hostile; neutral; suspect.

Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms. US Department of Defense 2005.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/unknown​

Given that you seem to be particularly hung up on some false impressions regarding military protocol and terminology, I want you to take particular notice of that last set of definitions highlighted above, the ones from the US Department of Defense's own Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms.

Where in that definition do you see the word "alien"?

Where in that definition do you see any reference at all to extraterrestrial spacecraft?

What does that definition in fact say regarding use of the word "unknown" in military parlance?


The Free Dictionary also includes a thesaurus that categorizes its synonyms according to proper usage, and we see that "alien" is used as a synonym for "unknown" specifically when referring to a person of unknown origin, but not for unknown objects:

Thesaurus

Legend: | Synonyms | Related words | Antonyms

Noun

1. unknown - an unknown and unexplored region; "they came like angels out the unknown"

| terra incognita, unknown region
| region - a large indefinite location on the surface of the Earth; "penguins inhabit the polar regions"​

2. unknown - anyone who does not belong in the environment in which they are found

| stranger, alien| outsider, foreigner - someone who is excluded from or is not a member of a group
| interloper, intruder, trespasser - someone who intrudes on the privacy or property of another without permission​

3. unknown - a variable whose values are solutions of an equation

| unknown quantity
| variable - a symbol (like x or y) that is used in mathematical or logical expressions to represent a variable quantity​

Adj.

1. unknown - not known; "an unknown amount"; "an unknown island"; "an unknown writer"; "an unknown source"

| unacknowledged - not recognized or admitted
| unfamiliar - not known or well known; "a name unfamiliar to most"; "be alert at night especially in unfamiliar surroundings"
| inglorious - not bringing honor and glory; "some mute inglorious Milton here may rest"
| known - apprehended with certainty; "a known quantity"; "the limits of the known world"; "a musician known throughout the world"; "a known criminal"​

2. unknown - being or having an unknown or unnamed source; "a poem by an unknown author"; "corporations responsible to nameless owners"; "an unnamed donor"

| nameless, unnamed, unidentified
| anon., anonymous - having no known name or identity or known source; "anonymous authors"; "anonymous donors"; "an anonymous gift"​

3. unknown - not known to exist; "things obscurely felt surged up from unknown depths"

| unsuspected - not suspected or believed likely; "remained unsuspected as the head of the spy ring"; "he was able to get into the building unspotted and unsuspected"; "unsuspected difficulties arose"; "unsuspected turnings in the road"​

4. unknown - not famous or acclaimed; "an obscure family"; "unsung heroes of the war"

| unsung, obscure
| inglorious - not bringing honor and glory; "some mute inglorious Milton here may rest"​

5. unknown - not known before; "used many strange words"; "saw many strange faces in the crowd"; "don't let anyone unknown into the house"

| strange
| unfamiliar - not known or well known; "a name unfamiliar to most"; "be alert at night especially in unfamiliar surroundings"​

Based on WordNet 3.0, Farlex clipart collection. © 2003-2011 Princeton University, Farlex Inc.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/unknown​

YourDictionary.com also has a thesaurus that categorizes its synonyms by definition:

Synonyms for unknown

modified

1. Not known; said of information

uncomprehended, unapprehended, undiscovered, untold, unexplained, unascertained, uninvestigated, unexplored, unheard of, unperceived, concealed, hidden, unrevealed.

ANTONYMS known*, established, understood.​

2. Not known; said of people

alien, unfamiliar, not introduced, unheard of, obscure, foreign, strange, unacknowledged, anonymous, unnamed, ostracized, outcast, friendless, private, retired, aloof, out of the world, rusticated, forgotten.​

3. Not known; said of terrain

unexplored, far-off, remote, far, distant, foreign, undiscovered, exotic, hyperborean, transoceanic, transmarine, ultramontane, antipodal, at the far corners of the earth, faraway, at the uttermost ends of the earth, in parts unknown, outlandish, unheard-of, unfrequented, untraveled, desolate, desert, unvisited, legendary, strange, Atlantean.​

http://thesaurus.yourdictionary.com/unknown​

More definitions of "unknown":

un·known

adjective /ˌənˈnōn/ 

Not known or familiar

- exploration into unknown territory
- his whereabouts are unknown to his family​

(of a performer or artist) Not well known or famous


noun /ˌənˈnōn/ 
unknowns, plural

An unknown person or thing

- she is a relative unknown​

An unknown quantity or variable

- find the unknown in the following equations​

That which is unknown

- our fear of the unknown​

______________________________________________

Web definitions

not known; "an unknown amount"; "an unknown island"; "an unknown writer"; "an unknown source"

nameless: being or having an unknown or unnamed source; "a poem by an unknown author"; "corporations responsible to nameless owners"; "an unnamed donor"

stranger: anyone who does not belong in the environment in which they are found

a variable whose values are solutions of an equation

not known to exist; "things obscurely felt surged up from unknown depths"

obscure: not famous or acclaimed; "an obscure family"; "unsung heroes of the war"

https://www.google.com/#q=define+unknown

un·known   [uhn-nohn]

adjective

1. not known; not within the range of one's knowledge, experience, or understanding; strange; unfamiliar.

2. not discovered, explored, identified, or ascertained: the unknown parts of Antarctica.

3. not widely known; not famous; obscure: an unknown writer.​

noun

4. a thing, influence, area, factor, or person that is unknown: the many unknowns in modern medicine; The director cast an unknown in the leading role.

5. Mathematics . a symbol representing an unknown quantity: in algebra, analysis, etc., frequently represented by a letter from the last part of the alphabet, as x, y, or z.​

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/unknown

unknown

Definition of UNKNOWN

: not known or not well-known; also : having an unknown value <an unknown quantity>​

Examples of UNKNOWN

• a disease of unknown cause

• Much remains unknown about his early life.

• Her music was previously unknown outside of Asia.

• An unknown number of cases go unreported.

• The victim's attacker was unknown to her.

• For some unknown reason, my computer crashed.

• a book of unknown poems

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/unknown

unknown

adjective

not known; specif.,

1. not in the knowledge, understanding, or acquaintance of someone; unfamiliar (to)
2. not discovered, identified, determined, explored, etc.

noun

1. an unknown person or thing
2. an unknown mathematical quantity: also, a symbol for this

Webster's New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2010 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Cleveland, Ohio.
Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/unknown

unknown

Pronunciation: /ʌnˈnəʊn/

adjective

not known or familiar:

exploration into unknown territory

his whereabouts are unknown to his family

• (of a performer or artist) not well known or famous: unknown artists of the avant-garde

noun

an unknown person or thing:

she is a relative unknown

• (the unknown) that which is unknown:
  our fear of the unknown

• Mathematics an unknown quantity or variable:
  find the unknown in the following equations

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/unknown​

Where in any of these definitions do you see the word "extraterrestrial" listed as a synonym for the word "unknown"?

Where in any of these definitions do you see the word "alien" listed as a synonym for the word "unknown," outside of references to individual persons or areas of terrain?

 

[GeeMack]

As usual, you're committing a fallacy of equivocation, misusing a word totally out of context in an attempt to bolster your failed argument.

Just because "alien" appears in the thesaurus under the heading "unknown," that does not mean that any unknown things may be assumed by definition to be extraterrestrial. While it is basically true that "alien" is sometimes used as a synonym for "unknown," it is also true that such usage is only proper under specific circumstances, eg. when referring to people or geographic terrain.


Allow me to post a number of definitions from the Web, just to prove that you're once again engaging in a dishonest semantic fallacy:

[...]

Where in any of these definitions do you see the word "extraterrestrial" listed as a synonym for the word "unidentified"?

Where in any of these definitions do you see the word "alien" listed as a synonym for the word "unidentified," outside of references to individual persons or areas of terrain?

Thanks for another very constructive contribution, John. Too bad there are never any such constructive contributions from the "UFOs = alien craft" proponents. I guess the skeptics are the ones who have to do all the work as usual.

I will go out on a limb here and predict that a concerted effort will be made to cherry pick a word or two from your research, apply some convoluted logic, twist some actual definitions into some bogus ones, and generally continue to dishonestly hammer away at the already failed argument that "alien" is somehow interchangeable with "unknown". Boy, wouldn't it be refreshing if just once the "ufologists" would simply admit their error, acknowledge that they've been trying to use terms in unconventional ways to support their fantasy, and follow with a sincere effort to knock off that kind of dishonesty? Huh? Not going to happen? Well, a fellow's got a right to wish.