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Origin of the paint that was found as red-gray chips - any ideas?

superlogicalthinker said:
Ok then, Chris should get in contact asking Jim for a written explanation as to the chain of custody for his samples and why he decided now should be the time to go public with them.

This should be discussed now in my opinion anyway so that we know our time is not being wasted waiting for the results. look at what happened to the Harrit/Jones paper with chain of custody.

Wouldn't want to see the same thing happen again. History...right?
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Jim, or anybody really, had no reason to go public with anything. There is no prima-facie evidence that anything interesting can be found in those dust samples that has not been found before.

Jim is doing this study now because Chris asked him if he could do it, and we are paying for it. Simple as that. Something that the truther side could have done years ago. Like Harrit e.al. write in their paper of april 2009:
Harrit e.al. said:
8. What Future Studies are Contemplated?
We observe that the total energy released from some of the red chips exceeds the theoretical limit for thermite alone (3.9 kJ/g). One possibility is that the organic material in the red layer is itself energetic. Determination of the chemical compound(s) involved in the organic component of the red material would promote understanding. Further studies of the red material (separated from the gray material) compared to known super-thermite variants using DSC, TGA, FTIR (etc.) analyses would certainly be in order. In particular, NMR and GC-mass spectroscopy and related studies are urged to identify the organic material.
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Jim is doing that on our behalf. We are happy that he is enthusiastic enough to go some extra distance at no further charge.



I propose we let Jim do his job and then review the resukts critically.
 
superlogicalthinker said:
There is no more questions to be asked until we find out about chain of custody of these samples that have appeared out of thin air and who took them and how they were collected. So far what I've read from Mohr is not close to being satisfactory.
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Okay. Noted. Thanks.
 
superlogicalthinker said:
Ok then, Chris should get in contact asking Jim for a written explanation as to the chain of custody for his samples and why he decided now should be the time to go public with them.

This should be discussed now in my opinion anyway so that we know our time is not being wasted waiting for the results. look at what happened to the Harrit/Jones paper with chain of custody.

Wouldn't want to see the same thing happen again. History...right?
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In answer to your request.... no. It's premature. This week I will probably get the $1000 and will give Dr. Millette the green light to go ahead. Once he is moving forward I MIGHT ask him about chain of custody but that will be something he includes in the final study, guaranteed.

Jim Millette didn't suddenly decide to do this study now. I contacted him and said I really wanted to have a test of the dust and that I could raise the money to do the test. I asked over two dozen labs, forensic experts, fire safety specialists and individuals before I found someone of impeccable knowledge, credentials and objectivity. Many 9/11 Truth activists are contributing too, even with their initial skepticism.

This should be a Halleluliah moment for Harritt/Jones/Ryan and all 9/11 Truth seekers. And it is for several of them... one guy said this made his day, and we have four 9/11 Truth people contributing to this, some enthusiastically and one reluctantly but all willing to at least see what is brought out! The "other side" is contributing over $165 of the total, which I am grateful for. Dr. Millette would not have done this on his own... WE are the ones who hired him and his lab to do these tests. HE agrees with the 9/11 Truth people that no tests have been done looking for therm?te in the dust. HE agreed to offer Kevin Ryan a place at the table and have him submit red-gray chips KEVIN thought were thermitic. This is everything the 9/11 Truth movement has wanted... you are being ignored no more!!!!

I'm giving this test my best shot... hold your fire for awhile, please.
 
plague311 said:
Every time a logical answer is given, troofers hand wave it and say it doesn't hold water.

Also, I understand that there might be some issues with chain of custody, but the way I see it there is nothing that makes this chain of custody any less iron clad than on the Herrit et al. paper.
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Do you read what you write?

"but the way I see it there is nothing that makes this chain of custody any less iron clad than on the Herrit et al. paper"

They chain of custody issue is a major point of interest on the sample topic. Are we going to settle for what is already been done, or should we make sure that procedure is followed to a tee this time around so there can be no post discussion as to how samples were collected and preserved?
 
superlogicalthinker said:
They chain of custody issue is a major point of interest on the sample topic. Are we going to settle for what is already been done, or should we make sure that procedure is followed to a tee this time around so there can be no post discussion as to how samples were collected and preserved?
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We?
 
superlogicalthinker said:
Do you read what you write?

"but the way I see it there is nothing that makes this chain of custody any less iron clad than on the Herrit et al. paper"

They chain of custody issue is a major point of interest on the sample topic. Are we going to settle for what is already been done, or should we make sure that procedure is followed to a tee this time around so there can be no post discussion as to how samples were collected and preserved?
Click to expand...

There's actually a thread for this, that I personally started. It's properly titled "chain of custody" and is meant for this topic. I posted prematurely and realized this should have been in that thread. If you have questions, post it there. However, it's been hashed out above, despite being off topic.
 
chrismohr said:
In answer to your request.... no. It's premature. This week I will probably get the $1000 and will give Dr. Millette the green light to go ahead. Once he is moving forward I MIGHT ask him about chain of custody but that will be something he includes in the final study, guaranteed.

Jim Millette didn't suddenly decide to do this study now. I contacted him and said I really wanted to have a test of the dust and that I could raise the money to do the test. I asked over two dozen labs, forensic experts, fire safety specialists and individuals before I found someone of impeccable knowledge, credentials and objectivity. Many 9/11 Truth activists are contributing too, even with their initial skepticism.

This should be a Halleluliah moment for Harritt/Jones/Ryan and all 9/11 Truth seekers. And it is for several of them... one guy said this made his day, and we have four 9/11 Truth people contributing to this, some enthusiastically and one reluctantly but all willing to at least see what is brought out! The "other side" is contributing over $165 of the total, which I am grateful for. Dr. Millette would not have done this on his own... WE are the ones who hired him and his lab to do these tests. HE agrees with the 9/11 Truth people that no tests have been done looking for therm?te in the dust. HE agreed to offer Kevin Ryan a place at the table and have him submit red-gray chips KEVIN thought were thermitic. This is everything the 9/11 Truth movement has wanted... you are being ignored no more!!!!

I'm giving this test my best shot... hold your fire for awhile, please.
Click to expand...

How is it pre mature to ask for knowledge about the chain of custody of samples which have not been tested to date? What is the reason to wait that long when it could be a known fact right now? What is the harm to know the chain of custody now as opposed to waiting until the paper is written? That could take months. Moreover, if the chain of custody has fl awes in it, then this is a massive waste of time and money.
 
chrismohr said:
In answer to your request.... no. It's premature. This week I will probably get the $1000 and will give Dr. Millette the green light to go ahead. Once he is moving forward I MIGHT ask him about chain of custody but that will be something he includes in the final study, guaranteed.

Jim Millette didn't suddenly decide to do this study now. I contacted him and said I really wanted to have a test of the dust and that I could raise the money to do the test. I asked over two dozen labs, forensic experts, fire safety specialists and individuals before I found someone of impeccable knowledge, credentials and objectivity. Many 9/11 Truth activists are contributing too, even with their initial skepticism.

This should be a Halleluliah moment for Harritt/Jones/Ryan and all 9/11 Truth seekers. And it is for several of them... one guy said this made his day, and we have four 9/11 Truth people contributing to this, some enthusiastically and one reluctantly but all willing to at least see what is brought out! The "other side" is contributing over $165 of the total, which I am grateful for. Dr. Millette would not have done this on his own... WE are the ones who hired him and his lab to do these tests. HE agrees with the 9/11 Truth people that no tests have been done looking for therm?te in the dust. HE agreed to offer Kevin Ryan a place at the table and have him submit red-gray chips KEVIN thought were thermitic. This is everything the 9/11 Truth movement has wanted... you are being ignored no more!!!!

I'm giving this test my best shot... hold your fire for awhile, please.
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carlitos said:
We?
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yes we....as in all of us. 9/11 researchers who have taken the time to study the evidence no matter what side of the argument.
 
Oystein said:
Please, everybody, focus!

Do NOT discuss the chain of custody of the Harrit-samples - that's pretty much off-topic here! Remember the OP?




Please control your urge to fire off knee-jerk reactions just because no-claimer RedIbis is in da house!

I hope it is obvious to everybody here that of course we will review the chain of custody critically.
I hope it is equally obvious to everybody here that we will not poison the well!



If anybody disagress with the two statements above, feel free to comment. If you agree, I kindly ask you to indicate agreement by being silent.


Thank you.
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Well, I'm no scientist but when you heat up Tmenec primer paint to 430 C it doesn't explode does it? Harrits chip does. So I would have to agree with Franks original statment about it NOT being paint.:D
 
superlogicalthinker said:
How is it pre mature to ask for knowledge about the chain of custody of samples which have not been tested to date? What is the reason to wait that long when it could be a known fact right now? What is the harm to know the chain of custody now as opposed to waiting until the paper is written? That could take months. Moreover, if the chain of custody has fl awes in it, then this is a massive waste of time and money.
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Take it to the other thread, if you have questions ask them there. This thread is for paint chips, not chain of custody.
 
SLT*

No, it is not a secret that he had them. He did studies of the dust for the NIST and EPA, after 9/11. Have you not read the thread? Holy **** man! Don't be that lazy truther.
 
superlogicalthinker said:
Well, I'm no scientist but when you heat up Tmenec primer paint to 430 C it doesn't explode does it? Harrits chip does. So I would have to agree with Franks original statment about it NOT being paint.:D
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Can you give us a source and quote for you claim that Harrit's chip explodes? Thanks.
 
plague311 said:
There's actually a thread for this, that I personally started. It's properly titled "chain of custody" and is meant for this topic. I posted prematurely and realized this should have been in that thread. If you have questions, post it there. However, it's been hashed out above, despite being off topic.
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Thanks Plague... I'll visit the chain of custody thread you created and answer any questions and challenges about that subject there. It just doesn't belong there. Let's just keep referring everyone there until the subject is dealt with there.
 
superlogicalthinker said:
Well, I'm no scientist but when you heat up Tmenec primer paint to 430 C it doesn't explode does it? Harrits chip does. So I would have to agree with Franks original statment about it NOT being paint.:D
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I thought the chips ignited but didn't explode. Harritt et al measured the energy released from that ignition and it didn't match the energy release of a known nanothermite. They have explanations for why that was but those explanations have not been accepted by Oystein or me or Sunstealer or Ivan. Which is why I'm organizing this new test.... because new data could strengthen the case for therm?tes or not. Kevin Ryan has also told me the paint chips look and behave differently from the thermitic chips-- another reason to see if we can find out if this is true independently.
 
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superlogicalthinker said:
Well, I'm no scientist but when you heat up Tmenec primer paint to 430 C it doesn't explode does it? Harrits chip does. So I would have to agree with Franks original statment about it NOT being paint.:D
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Since thermite, nano or otherwise DOESN'T EXPLODE in the first place, your point would be?
:confused:
 
superlogicalthinker said:
Well, I'm no scientist but when you heat up Tmenec primer paint to 430 C it doesn't explode does it? Harrits chip does. So I would have to agree with Franks original statment about it NOT being paint.:D
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Yes, it does. Just about any paint I have ever seen hit with a welding torch does, if it is in small enough chips.

Black pepper explodes when it hits a hot stove burner.
 
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