Rick Santorum is an idiot, a bigot, and morally inconsistent...

[RandFan]

So you were referring to world wide where anal sex is far more rampant for a number of reasons. I was referring to US stats where hetero is by far the lessor, and not caused by monogamous hetero sex but women who engage with a bi partner or share needles.

And lesbians are safest of them all.

Hey, let's accept your premise and advance the discussion.

• Is it impossible for an STD to be spread primarily through vaginal intercourse (heterosexual sex)?
• Should such an STD become pandemic what would that have to do with with heterosexual sex?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

So you were referring to world wide where anal sex is far more rampant for a number of reasons. I was referring to US stats where hetero is by far the lessor, and not caused by monogamous hetero sex but women who engage with a bi partner or share needles.

I'm not going to engage your ignorance. Provide some kind of source of this imaginary explanation.


Here, maybe you'll understand your own words better.

That is so hopelessly mis-informed that I must conclude your views are simply rooted in the river of D'Nile and thus, not subject to correction.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That is so hopelessly mis-informed that I must conclude your views are simply rooted in the river of D'Nile and thus, not subject to correction.

Perhaps I'll quote you, see my edit above.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The use of antibiotics.

That sounds more like some confusion in the story to me. Here's a different version:

Unless the source of the infection, the fetus, was removed from Karen’s body, she would likely die.

At minimum, the doctor said, Karen had to be given antibiotics intravenously or she might go into septic shock and die.

The Santorums were at a crossroads.

Once they agreed to use antibiotics, they believed they were committing to delivery of the fetus, which they knew would most likely not survive outside the womb.</strong>

That is paraphrasing, not a quote. And I'm just not sure I think that is what the doctors would have meant. I could see the doctors saying the antibiotics weren't going to be enough, but certainly no doctor would say antibiotics need not be tried if one was not going to also abort.

“The doctors said they were talking about a matter of hours or a day or two before risking sepsis and both of them might die,” Santorum said. “Obviously, if it was a choice of whether both Karen and the child are going to die or just the child is going to die, I mean it’s a pretty easy call.”

Now this, on the other hand is written in quotations so I assume it is from the Terry Gross interview transcript. But the summary went on to say:

As her fever subsided, Karen – a former neonatal intensive-care nurse – asked for something to stop the labor. Her doctors refused, Santorum recalled, citing malpractice concerns.

Santorum said her labor proceeded without having to induce an abortion.

Karen, a soft-spoken red-haired 37-year-old, said that “ultimately” she would have agreed to intervention for the sake of her other children.

“If the physician came to me and said if we don’t deliver your baby in one hour you will be dead, yeah, I would have to do it,” she said.

So the choice would have been to save the mother, but that choice was not needed.


Well, I need to hear Santorum explain 'yes to save the mother' or not.

Here's a link to the 20 minute interview, but no transcript. I'll try to listen to it later today if someone doesn't beat me to it and save me the torture.

 

[RandFan]

That sounds more like some confusion in the story to me. Here's a different version:That is paraphrasing, not a quote. And I'm just not sure I think that is what the doctors would have meant. I could see the doctors saying the antibiotics weren't going to be enough, but certainly no doctor would say antibiotics need not be tried if one was not going to also abort.

Now this, on the other hand is written in quotations so I assume it is from the Terry Gross interview transcript. But the summary went on to say:So the choice would have been to save the mother, but that choice was not needed.


Well, I need to hear Santorum explain 'yes to save the mother' or not.

Here's a link to the 20 minute interview, but no transcript. I'll try to listen to it later today if someone doesn't beat me to it and save me the torture.

I'll withhold judgement as to Santorum and retract what I earlier said regarding the abortion incident. I don't know if Avalon has me on ignore but if not I apologize.

 

[Robert Prey]

And lesbians are safest of them all.

Hey, let's accept your premise and advance the discussion.

• Is it impossible for an STD to be spread primarily through vaginal intercourse (heterosexual sex)?
• Should such an STD become pandemic what would that have to do with with heterosexual sex?

Question one: Possible, especially with other std, but highly improbable.

Question two: Don't get the question.

 

[Robert Prey]

You didn't answer the question.
You seem to believe that women only get aids by sleeping with Bi-sexual men.

You even repeat this assertion.

How do you explain the spread of aids in Africa?
Are all the men in africa Bisexual?

In Africa, widespread homosexuality, widespread anal sex due to a lot of reasons including female circumcision and dirty, re-used needles used for vaccinations and other "health" purposes.

"WHY IS HIV SO PREVALENT IN AFRICA?
BY MICHAEL FUMENTO

Tech Central Station, April 15, 2005
Copyright 2005 Tech Central Station

"...Yet almost certainly greater – and more controllable – contributors to the African epidemic are "contaminated punctures from such sources as medical injections, dental injections, surgical procedures, drawing as well as injecting blood, and rehydration through IV tubes," says Brody.

You don’t even need to go to a clinic to be injected with HIV: Almost two-thirds of 360 homes visited in sub-Saharan Africa had medical injection equipment that was apparently shared by family members. This, says Brody, can explain why both a husband and wife will be infected.

For those who care to look, there are many indicators that punctures play a huge role in the spread of disease. For example, during the 1990s HIV increased in Zimbabwe at approximately 12 percent annually, even as condom use increased and sexually transmitted infections rapidly fell."

http://fumento.com/aids/aids2005.html

 

[Robert Prey]

How is it in "D'Nile"? Do you have actual scientific evidence that suggests his claims are either false or misrepresented? And yes many people do enjoy anal sex, this is a fact.

Obviously.

 

[RandFan]

Question one: Possible, especially with other std, but highly improbable.

Highly improbable based on what? FTR: AIDS has NOT significantly slowed the rate of human population growth. Existing STD's propigated by heterosexual sex have been the source of serious social health concerns.

Question two: Don't get the question.

Whatever it is you seem to think AIDS says about gay sex would also be said about any heterosexual transmitted disease of similar scope. Right?

 

[Travis]

Question one: Possible, especially with other std, but highly improbable.

Question two: Don't get the question.

Okay.......new question: does Spock have a goatee in your universe?

In our universe the primary transmission path of most STD's is through penile-vaginal sex. I would ask you to stop polluting our universe with misinformation.

 

[Robert Prey]

I'm not going to engage your ignorance. Provide some kind of source of this imaginary explanation.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/resources/slides/incidence/index.htm

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Robert, you seem to be completely misreading my posts. You should start by reading what I said again.

Yes, homosexual sex dominated the means of transmission IN THE US. Not only is that exactly what I said, I also said that was more likely than heterosexual transmission as the source of the contaminated blood products that infected Ryan White.

Where you are showing total denial and ignorance is your foolish belief that anal intercourse between heterosexual partners and not vaginal intercourse is the most common means of transmission worldwide. When shown the irrefutable evidence that heterosexual transmission is the more common means of transmission worldwide, you imagine (without a shred of evidence other than an AIDS denialist's opinion) your own scenario that it must be because anal intercourse is more common outside the US. And you presented no evidence to support that claim.

Instead you link to a single person with a refuted claim that it's all about anal sex.

Regardless of the fact that anal sex is more risky, how would any female infect any male? In your's and Fumento's ignorant hypothesis, all sexually infected men must be homosexual or bisexual and females would rarely, if ever, be the source of transmission. Clearly that is not the case.

8 Mastro T, Satten Glen, Naopkesorn T, et at. Probability of female-to-male transmission of HIV-1 in Thailand. Lancet 1994:343:204-207
9 Nicolosi A, Correa Leite ML, Musicco M, et al. The efficiency of male-to-female and female-to-male sexual transmission of the human immunodeficiency virus: a study of 730 stable couples. Italian Study Group on HIV Heterosexual Transmission. Epidemiology. 1994; 5 (6):565-7
10 Padian NS, Shiboski SC, Jewell NP. Female-to-male transmission of human immunodeficiency virus. JAMA 1991; 266(12):1664-7.
11 European Study Group on Heterosexual Transmission of HIV. Camparison of female to male and male to female transmission of HIV in 563 stable couples. BMJ 1992; 304:809-13

HIV heterosexual transmission and the "Padian paper myth"

Heterosexual transmission of HIV – Nancy Padian, PhD
HIV is unquestionably transmitted through heterosexual intercourse. Indeed, heterosexual intercourse is now responsible for 70-80% of all HIV transmissions worldwide (2). The current likelihood of male to female infection after a single exposure to HIV is 0.01-0.32% (2, 3), and the current likelihood of female to male infection after a single exposure is 0.01-0.1% (2). These estimates are mostly derived from studies in the developed world. However, a man or a woman can become HIV-positive after just one sexual contact. In developing countries, particularly those in sub-Saharan Africa, several factors (co-infection with other sexually transmitted diseases, circumcision practices, poor acceptance of condoms, patterns of sexual partner selection, locally circulating viral subtypes, high viral loads among those who are infected, etc.) can increase the likelihood of heterosexual transmission to 20% or even higher (4). Evidence that specifically documents the heterosexual transmission of HIV comes from studies of HIV-discordant couples (i.e., couples in a stable, monogamous relationship where one partner is infected and the other is not); over time, HIV transmission occurs (5). Other studies have traced the transmission of HIV through networks of sexual partners (6-9). Additional evidence comes from intervention studies that, for example, promote condom use or encourage reductions in the numbers of sexual partners: the documented success of these interventions is because they prevent the sexual transmission of HIV (1,10,11).

Fumento is a typical conspiracy theorist that claims he and only a few people know the truth and the rest of the entire medical and scientific communities are either duped or in on the conspiracy.

A determined renegade group of three scientists has fought for years – with little success – to get out the message that no more than a third of HIV transmission in Africa is from sexual intercourse and most of that is anal. By ignoring the real vectors, they say, we’re sacrificing literally millions of people.

Gee, 3 people out of thousands, that's convincing.


If the evidence supported these 3 denialist's views, they would have no trouble convincing colleagues.

 

[joobz]

In Africa, widespread homosexuality, widespread anal sex due to a lot of reasons including female circumcision and dirty, re-used needles used for vaccinations and other "health" purposes.

"WHY IS HIV SO PREVALENT IN AFRICA?
BY MICHAEL FUMENTO

Tech Central Station, April 15, 2005
Copyright 2005 Tech Central Station

"...Yet almost certainly greater – and more controllable – contributors to the African epidemic are "contaminated punctures from such sources as medical injections, dental injections, surgical procedures, drawing as well as injecting blood, and rehydration through IV tubes," says Brody.

You don’t even need to go to a clinic to be injected with HIV: Almost two-thirds of 360 homes visited in sub-Saharan Africa had medical injection equipment that was apparently shared by family members. This, says Brody, can explain why both a husband and wife will be infected.

For those who care to look, there are many indicators that punctures play a huge role in the spread of disease. For example, during the 1990s HIV increased in Zimbabwe at approximately 12 percent annually, even as condom use increased and sexually transmitted infections rapidly fell."

http://fumento.com/aids/aids2005.html

None of this actually helps your claim. Besides the fact that it is read like conspiracy nonsense and conflicts with CDC and WHO data, if we take it on face value, we are left with the observation that people receive HIV infections by methods other than by a homosexual/bisexual man.

In other words, your claim that women get aids by having sex with a bisexual man is nothing but bigoted nonsense. What special mechanism exists that would prevent a heterosexual man (who got infected through a needle stick) from transmitting the infection through vaginal sex?

 

[Travis]

Apparently vagina's only allow the disease in when it comes from a bisexual penis.

 

[Robert Prey]

None of this actually helps your claim. Besides the fact that it is read like conspiracy nonsense and conflicts with CDC and WHO data, if we take it on face value, we are left with the observation that people receive HIV infections by methods other than by a homosexual/bisexual man.

In other words, your claim that women get aids by having sex with a bisexual man is nothing but bigoted nonsense. What special mechanism exists that would prevent a heterosexual man (who got infected through a needle stick) from transmitting the infection through vaginal sex?

Absent STDs, the vagina wall is not conducive to such invasions as is the other uh, place.

 

[Robert Prey]

Highly improbable based on what? FTR: AIDS has NOT significantly slowed the rate of human population growth. Existing STD's propigated by heterosexual sex have been the source of serious social health concerns.

Whatever it is you seem to think AIDS says about gay sex would also be said about any heterosexual transmitted disease of similar scope. Right?

Wrong.

 

[joobz]

Absent STDs, the vagina wall is not conducive to such invasions as is the other uh, place.

You failed to address my points and are merely asserting secondary point.
1. Bisexual men are not the only men with HIV.
2. Less condusive then the rectum doesn't mean non conductive.
3. there is no mechanistic reason why bisexual men could transmit that would exclude heterosexual men.

 

[Robert Prey]

Robert, you seem to be completely misreading my posts. You should start by reading what I said again.

Yes, homosexual sex dominated the means of transmission IN THE US. Not only is that exactly what I said, I also said that was more likely than heterosexual transmission as the source of the contaminated blood products that infected Ryan White.

Here is what you said:
"While you are correct to say the majority of HIV infections have been spread through heterosexual intercourse, [/B]less through homosexual acts and illegal IV drug use, Ryan White was infected from hemophiliac blood products collected in the US during the height of the homosexual HIV epidemic here.
I think your argument is confused.

 

[Tricky]

Okay.......new question: does Spock have a goatee in your universe?

In our universe the primary transmission path of most STD's is through penile-vaginal sex. I would ask you to stop polluting our universe with misinformation.

Actually, we don't have solid figures for VIV. (Vulcan Immunodeficiency Virus.)

 

[RandFan]

Highly improbable based on what? FTR: AIDS has NOT significantly slowed the rate of human population growth. Existing STD's propigated by heterosexual sex have been the source of serious social health concerns.

Whatever it is you seem to think AIDS says about gay sex would also be said about any heterosexual transmitted disease of similar scope. Right?

Wrong.

Why?