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Continuation Part 4: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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Yes, John, Missouri has a forensic lab but are all their technicians DOCTORS, I ask you?

Have they converted an everyday DNA lab to a state-of-the-art LCN DNA lab with merely the passage of time?

Can they find DNA in cervices that mere mortals can't even find?

Finally, have they been able to destroy critical evidence in storage in mere months?

This is just an example of their sad, pathetic misdirection from any real case against the kids. Or should I say the two that were merely kids?
 
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Yes, John, Missouri has a forensic lab but are all their technicians DOCTORS, I ask you?

Have they converted an everyday DNA lab to a state-of-the-art LCN DNA lab with merely the passage of time?

Can they find DNA in cervices that mere mortals can't even find?

Finally, have they been able to destroy critical evidence in storage in mere months?

This is just an example of their sad, pathetic misdirection from any real case against the kids. Or should I say the two that were merely kids?


:)

But in answer to your questions, perhaps it would be germane to refer to the instructions given by the MSHP Crime Lab to other law enforcement agencies, regarding the way in which certain evidence items should be treated and packaged prior to sending to the MSHP labs for testing:

http://www.mshp.dps.mo.gov/MSHPWeb/PatrolDivisions/CLD/GeneralInformation/properPackaging.html

I find Point 11 to be particularly relevant:

11. Evidence stained with body fluids (blood, semen, etc.) MUST BE AIR-DRIED COMPLETELY prior to packaging in paper and submission to the laboratory.


Note, perhaps, the CAPITALISED instruction that such items MUST BE AIR-DRIED COMPLETELY and must be packaged in paper for storage and transportation. Note also, perhaps, how the "crack" crime scene analysts and "world-class" forensics team in Perugia packaged still-damp evidence in non-permeable containers without allowing it to fully air-dry. Note how they allowed potentially crucial evidence on the towels to be totally destroyed in this way, when the towels went mouldy when in the custody of the "crack" team. Note further how the bra clasp was placed into a non-permeable plastic vial for storage (which apparently was OK since the vial was manufactured in the US.......:confused:), which led to it consequently rusting and becoming useless as evidence.
 
If that knife was presented in court then it must have been assigned a Ref number. It needs to have an evidence number assigned from the moment it was seized otherwise there will be no way to track the chain of custody. The only way that knife could be presented in court without an evidence number is if the prosecutor brought it in from his own collection as a prop. PS: Some combat knives of that variety are made of carbon fiber which would have a similar appearance.
_____________________

Dan,

You must be correct. It's not Raffaele's knife and not even a knife. A prop.

But I believe it was brought to court by the defense consultants, for demonstration purposes to discuss the manner in which Meredith was assaulted. Both of these linked photographs date from the same September, 2009, court hearing. As you can infer from his clothing and wristwatch, Amanda's attorney Carlo Vedova is holding the fake knife. See: HERE and HERE.

///
 
:)
Note, perhaps, the CAPITALISED instruction that such items MUST BE AIR-DRIED COMPLETELY and must be packaged in paper for storage and transportation. Note also, perhaps, how the "crack" crime scene analysts and "world-class" forensics team in Perugia packaged still-damp evidence in non-permeable containers without allowing it to fully air-dry. Note how they allowed potentially crucial evidence on the towels to be totally destroyed in this way, when the towels went mouldy when in the custody of the "crack" team. Note further how the bra clasp was placed into a non-permeable plastic vial for storage (which apparently was OK since the vial was manufactured in the US.......:confused:), which led to it consequently rusting and becoming useless as evidence.

How did the bra clasp get wet? It was basically left dry on the floor for 47 days and then collected, tested and stored. How did it get enough moisture on it to rust?

Once again, misdirection: the clasp was never good evidence at best and was worthless at worst. It was worthless by anybody'd standards, even PMF's DNA expert left their fold when they started bashing C&V.
 
If that knife was presented in court then it must have been assigned a Ref number. It needs to have an evidence number assigned from the moment it was seized otherwise there will be no way to track the chain of custody. The only way that knife could be presented in court without an evidence number is if the prosecutor brought it in from his own collection as a prop.

PS: Some combat knives of that variety are made of carbon fiber which would have a similar appearance.

My records are not complete, but I have records of all the stuff that was tested for DNA. I can't understand why they would test the kitchen knife and two folding knives, but not this knife.
 
_____________________

Dan,

You must be correct. It's not Raffaele's knife and not even a knife. A prop.

But I believe it was brought to court by the defense consultants, for demonstration purposes to discuss the manner in which Meredith was assaulted. Both of these linked photographs date from the same September, 2009, court hearing. As you can infer from his clothing and wristwatch, Amanda's attorney Carlo Vedova is holding the fake knife. See: HERE and HERE.
///

That makes sense. But where did Some Alibi/TJMK get their story about a knife displayed on the wall in Raffaele's apt?
 
I would like to draw people's attention to what I think is a new point relating both to time of death and the sequence of events. This emerges from a discussion over at IIP. Look at this photograph of the victim's shoes as found at the crime scene:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=277492512275227&set=pu.106344459390034&type=1

You can see the left shoe is untied and the laced section evenly separated but the right remains tied and the knot appears to have been yanked. Two different methods of removing the shoes have been employed. The suggestion is that Meredith was removing her shoes when attacked.

Another photograph shows her notebook and what looks like a course book on the bed near to the wall. The book may be the one she borrowed from Robyn.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=277509728940172&set=pu.106344459390034&type=1

These items are where one might expect to find them if, having been left on the bed on top of the duvet, they had been tipped towards the wall by the lifting of the duvet at the open side, prior to removal for use in covering the body.

These two things suggest that Meredith spent no time lying on her bed (on top of notebook and book) and was attacked at a very precise point, while in the act of removing her shoes. They would suggest no kitchen confrontation and, I believe, an attack very shortly after her return home when, on any view, Amanda and Raffaele could not have been anywhere near the scene.
 
I would like to draw people's attention to what I think is a new point relating both to time of death and the sequence of events. This emerges from a discussion over at IIP. Look at this photograph of the victim's shoes as found at the crime scene:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=277492512275227&set=pu.106344459390034&type=1

You can see the left shoe is untied and the laced section evenly separated but the right remains tied and the knot appears to have been yanked. Two different methods of removing the shoes have been employed. The suggestion is that Meredith was removing her shoes when attacked.

Another photograph shows her notebook and what looks like a course book on the bed near to the wall. The book may be the one she borrowed from Robyn.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=277509728940172&set=pu.106344459390034&type=1

These items are where one might expect to find them if, having been left on the bed on top of the duvet, they had been tipped towards the wall by the lifting of the duvet at the open side, prior to removal for use in covering the body.

These two things suggest that Meredith spent no time lying on her bed (on top of notebook and book) and was attacked at a very precise point, while in the act of removing her shoes. They would suggest no kitchen confrontation and, I believe, an attack very shortly after her return home when, on any view, Amanda and Raffaele could not have been anywhere near the scene.
Yes. All these things are suggestive of what Hendry has said in his analysis: That Meredith surprised Guede during his burglary; that he heard her and realized he could not exit via the front door, as she had locked it; that he confronted her, and a struggle ensued. The shoes and the books are very telling. It suggests she had only just arrived home, and was interrupted, and attacked.

It is a simple and believable scenario, supported by numerous facts and pieces of evidence. The scenario which is still being entertained on PMF: That Knox and Sollecito locked MK in her room as a prank, then somehow got Guede to attack her, and the plan escalated, is a huge stretch unsupported by any empirical data.
 
the locked room scenario

It is a simple and believable scenario, supported by numerous facts and pieces of evidence. The scenario which is still being entertained on PMF: That Knox and Sollecito locked MK in her room as a prank, then somehow got Guede to attack her, and the plan escalated, is a huge stretch unsupported by any empirical data.

If Meredith were locked into her room and without her cell phones, would she not have used her computer to seek help from her friends or from the police? My recollection is that her drive was damaged by the police, but possibly some data were recovered. And if she had sent email, the recipient would still have a record. What am I missing here?
 
:)

But in answer to your questions, perhaps it would be germane to refer to the instructions given by the MSHP Crime Lab to other law enforcement agencies, regarding the way in which certain evidence items should be treated and packaged prior to sending to the MSHP labs for testing:

http://www.mshp.dps.mo.gov/MSHPWeb/PatrolDivisions/CLD/GeneralInformation/properPackaging.html

I find Point 11 to be particularly relevant:


Note, perhaps, the CAPITALISED instruction that such items MUST BE AIR-DRIED COMPLETELY and must be packaged in paper for storage and transportation. Note also, perhaps, how the "crack" crime scene analysts and "world-class" forensics team in Perugia packaged still-damp evidence in non-permeable containers without allowing it to fully air-dry. Note how they allowed potentially crucial evidence on the towels to be totally destroyed in this way, when the towels went mouldy when in the custody of the "crack" team. Note further how the bra clasp was placed into a non-permeable plastic vial for storage (which apparently was OK since the vial was manufactured in the US.......:confused:), which led to it consequently rusting and becoming useless as evidence.

Well, I've heard that they followed ITALIAN evidence collection standards and no one should expect them to follow INTERNATIONAL evidence collection standards. So, if it's ok with Italy to let evidence get mouldy then it should really be ok with us, too. :boggled:
 
If Meredith were locked into her room and without her cell phones, would she not have used her computer to seek help from her friends or from the police? My recollection is that her drive was damaged by the police, but possibly some data were recovered. And if she had sent email, the recipient would still have a record. What am I missing here?
You're right, of course. I highlighted that section in case any of them should read here.

If one was locked in one's room with cellphones taken by some idiot room mate, and could not even phone Mom, of course the emailing would begin. They simply ignore that fact. I wonder how they would answer this? Of course, they cannot.
 
Does someone have a reference for what the Italian evidence collection procedures are? Do they not follow the International standards?
 
You're right, of course. I highlighted that section in case any of them should read here.

If one was locked in one's room with cellphones taken by some idiot room mate, and could not even phone Mom, of course the emailing would begin. They simply ignore that fact. I wonder how they would answer this? Of course, they cannot.
Addendum to halides1:

Let's just say they tried to argue that, "Well, they opened the door as soon as she began to yell, before she thought of emailing anyone. Then, they began the attack, and things escalated."

Where is the evidence for this far-fetched, convoluted, hazing-pranking scenario? I cannot believe this is being entertained seriously by them post-Hellmann report. I just cannot.
 
If Meredith were locked into her room and without her cell phones, would she not have used her computer to seek help from her friends or from the police? My recollection is that her drive was damaged by the police, but possibly some data were recovered. And if she had sent email, the recipient would still have a record. What am I missing here?


Indeed. And additionally, if Meredith had been locked into her room for as long as some idiots seem to be postulating in their ever-more-ludicrous attempts to find some way to make Knox/Sollecito guilty, then wouldn't she also have opened her bedroom window* and shouted out? After all, locking someone in a room for an hour or more counts in most people's books as considerably more than a "prank".

Additionally, I would have thought that if faced with such a scenario, Meredith would have made a considerable effort to force the door open - either by trying to force the lock or by trying to pry the door open at the gap between the door and the frame. Of course, no indication of any such action on the inner face of the door (i.e. the face facing Meredith's room when the door is shut) was ever found. Or perhaps the idiots are suggesting that Meredith was tied up in some way during this fictional "lock-in" - and tied up in a way that left no telltale restraint marks on her wrists, arms or hands.....

While I think it's valuable to address every theory related to this case - no matter how far-fetched - one thing should be obvious to practically everyone with an ounce of objectivity and rationality: certain pro-guilt commentators (and communities thereof) are now shredding their last remaining scraps of credibility, authority and critical reasoning, as their increasing desperation to construct a "theory" of the crime consistent with Knox's/Sollecito's involvement (which is also consistent with the known evidence - and lack of evidence) leads them to more and more convoluted and ridiculous suppositions.

Once again, for clarity, here's the truth: there is no credible evidence that shows that Knox and/or Sollecito participated in the murder of Meredith Kercher. That alone is much more than sufficient to acquit them, of course. But, more than that, the evidence actually tends to support a firm alternative theory of the crime - that Guede alone broke into the cottage at some point between 8.30pm and 9pm, was surprised by the arrival of Meredith just after 9pm, and confronted, assaulted and killed her. It's over. Really, it's over. That's the truth.


* Although Meredith's window faced away from the road and towards the hilly unpopulated ravine, reflections would have carried at least some of the noise of a loud shout for help towards the road and the apartments opposite.
 
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I would like to draw people's attention to what I think is a new point relating both to time of death and the sequence of events. This emerges from a discussion over at IIP. Look at this photograph of the victim's shoes as found at the crime scene:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=277492512275227&set=pu.106344459390034&type=1

You can see the left shoe is untied and the laced section evenly separated but the right remains tied and the knot appears to have been yanked. Two different methods of removing the shoes have been employed. The suggestion is that Meredith was removing her shoes when attacked.

Another photograph shows her notebook and what looks like a course book on the bed near to the wall. The book may be the one she borrowed from Robyn.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=277509728940172&set=pu.106344459390034&type=1

These items are where one might expect to find them if, having been left on the bed on top of the duvet, they had been tipped towards the wall by the lifting of the duvet at the open side, prior to removal for use in covering the body.

These two things suggest that Meredith spent no time lying on her bed (on top of notebook and book) and was attacked at a very precise point, while in the act of removing her shoes. They would suggest no kitchen confrontation and, I believe, an attack very shortly after her return home when, on any view, Amanda and Raffaele could not have been anywhere near the scene.


That is indeed very interesting, and potentially very relevant. I would, however, place a slightly modified interpretation on the way the shoes and their laces were found.

I think the single most important thing is that the two shoes were removed in different ways. One was clearly unlaced, and the other was pulled off with the laces still tied (and, as you say, there appears to have been possible pulling stress on the knot). Now, the important thing about this in my opinion is that it's reasonable to say that almost nobody elects to remove laced-up shoes in a different manner for each shoe. Some people pull both shoes off, leaving the laces tied (especially if they are in a hurry or very tired etc), and others bend down, untie the laces of both shoes, and remove both shoes in the "conventional" manner. It would make no sense whatsoever for someone to take the time to bend down but only unlace one shoe*.

Therefore, I think the evidence from Meredith's trainers suggests one of two different things: either

a) Meredith was in the midst of removing her shoes when she was confronted by her assailant, and she had unlaced only her right trainer by that point.

b) Meredith had not made any attempt to remove her trainer prior to the confrontation, but the assailant removed them himself during the attack in a panicked way by unlacing one trainer and pulling the other one off without unlacing it.

It's worth remembering that the assailant (let's call him "Guede") would have needed to remove Meredith's shoes in order to remove her jeans, in order to facilitate a sexual assault or rape. And it's also worth remembering that Meredith had planned to read a study textbook before going to sleep, and that there was some indication that she might have intended to lie on/in her bed to do so. If that's the case, she would almost certainly have removed her trainers before lying on her bed (and definitely if she intended to get into bed). The apparent fact that she had not yet fully removed both trainers when she was confronted/attacked therefore tends to indicate that the confrontation/attack took place pretty shortly after Meredith arrived home.

In short, I think the different lace configurations on the trainers points towards the firm suggestion that Meredith was probably attacked shortly after arriving home. That's because the different configurations tend to suggest that someone other than Meredith was involved in the removal of at least one of the trainers, and because if Meredith had been attacked long after arriving home, the evidence suggests she would have removed her trainers before that point (and that therefore the trainers would both have been removed in the same way).



* Although there is always the possibility that someone could be intending to pull both shoes off without unlacing, and being able to remove the first shoe in this way, but that the second shoe was too tightly laced to be able to remove it without unlacing it - therefore necessitating an unlacing of the second shoe. That's a possibility in this case (albeit a small one), and it means that we can't treat the shoes as conclusive evidence of anything at all. Meredith might, after all, have done just this: come in, decided to remove her trainers without unlacing, removed the right trainer successfully in this way, but couldn't pry the left trainer off in the same way, forcing her to reach down and untie the laces of that trainer. If that had happened, the trainers would also have been in the condition in which they were found the following day.
 
There are much better outlandish theories which implicate Raffaele and Amanda. They encouraged Rudy to believe Meredith wanted to see him alone, as a cruel joke, and he went there in hope, was rebuffed and murdered her (as one does in these situations). This explains why there was no evidence they were there - they weren't. They staged the burglary though, to divert any attention from themselves (taking care to throw rock from outside) and locked Meredith's door, but unfortunately came over all shifty and unconvincing the next morning.

It's complete bull, of course, but bears reasonable comparison with the PGP variety and actually fits the forensics better.
 
Addendum to halides1:

Let's just say they tried to argue that, "Well, they opened the door as soon as she began to yell, before she thought of emailing anyone. Then, they began the attack, and things escalated."

Where is the evidence for this far-fetched, convoluted, hazing-pranking scenario? I cannot believe this is being entertained seriously by them post-Hellmann report. I just cannot.


Aren't they (or at least some of them) attempting to suggest that the "lock-in" lasted for a considerably longer period of time (even something approaching two hours in one particularly risible version!)? I don't think the suggestion is that this "lock-in" only lasted a matter of seconds, or even minutes.

Of course, it's all a) nonsense and illogical, and b) completely unsupported by the known evidence in any case. So I think we can safely view - and dismiss - all this "lock-in and wait" talk for what it is: the sad, biased, misanthropic, irrational scrabbling for something - anything - to link Knox and Sollecito to the murder.
 
If you look closely at the knot in the tied shoelace it does not look especially tight and it has not been knotted after creation of the double bow (I think). It should have been easy to untie. We know the attacker (OK, we can call him 'Guede' if you like) was in a frenzy to get at the victim's body because of the way he removed her bra. He cannot have been in a frenzy then and also when removing the right shoe but calm and controlled when removing the left. The left is not merely untied btw. but also the laced section has been eased apart, whereas that section on the other shoe has been drawn tightly together by yanking at the knot.

Consider the position of the items on the bed too. The notebook and book are against the wall. They will not have been there to begin with, underneath the duvet. They must have been on the duvet and were tipped over against the wall when 'Guede' lifted the duvet. When were they put on the duvet? Probably not when the victim arose from her slumbers earlier that day, so more probably when she got home at about 21.00. They are about half way down the mattress and may be assumed to have started out somewhere near the very centre of the bed. This precludes any lying down, whether or not they were put there at the beginning of the day or when Meredith returned home.

If the book proves to be the history book she borrowed from Robyn (Dempsey p.41) then we shall know when it was put on the bed. We are trying to check that out.

There are only four possibilities with the shoes:
1 Meredith removed them both
2 'Guede' removed them both
3 (a) and (b) Meredith removed one and Guede the other (there are two versions of this, depending on which one each removed)

To my mind, by far the most likely is that variant of 3 in which Meredith removes the unlaced left shoe. A great deal follows from this in my opinion, if it is correct.

There are further indications that she was murdered shortly after arriving home, not mentioned anywhere so far as I know. Briefly:
1 she did not position her lamp for reading
2 she did not fill her hot water bottle (visible beside the wardrobe near her bloody boots)
3 she did not put on her house socks (which were also found lying on the bed - these are special socks with rubber, non-slip pimples on the soles).

If she did not lie down nor do any of the above things nor succeed in removing her second shoe we have a very precise idea of where and when the attack took place. She was very likely immobilised and helpless before 9.15 and dead by 9.25 p.m.
 
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