Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[TSR]

In case you didn't notice the Nazi's are pretty much all dead.

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...and like so many of the things you post, you're almost but not quite completely wrong. But they are still killing people.

Or didn't Greensboro happen, either?
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And when did I say Nazi's had integrity?

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When you refused to believe that the Nazis were capable of committing the atrocities they demonstrably did.
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What I have said was that the German people, German soldiers and Polish people supporting the camps had enough integrity to NOT allow/vocalize the extermination of millions of Jewish children, women and men noncombatants and millions of other noncombatants under their authority in the camps. The same for the Church and Red Cross personnel.

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And in what way were these folks supposed to go against the folks with the guns?
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Do you consider Elie, or Simon, or Steven Spielberg persons with much more than a smidgeon of historical integrity?

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Irrelevant. *You* have no integrity to speak of, as evidenced by the multitude of lies you post in support of your delusional 'arguments'.
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[Chaos]

Do you consider Elie, or Simon, or Steven Spielberg persons with much more than a smidgeon of historical integrity?

Any one of these has more integrity in their toenail than the entire coterie of Holocaust deniers here in all their bodies taken together.

 

[Loss Leader]

And when did I say Nazi's had integrity?

In your very next sentence:

What I have said was that the German people, German soldiers and Polish people supporting the camps had enough integrity to NOT allow/vocalize the extermination of millions of Jewish children, women and men noncombatants and millions of other noncombatants under their authority in the camps.

So, the German people and the German soldiers had "enough" integrity for some purposes. In your OP, you did not seem to allow for the possibility of a sliding scale of integrity.

The next logical question is: In what areas do you believe the German people or the German soldiers in World War II lacked integrity?

 

[Clayton Moore]

In your very next sentence:





So, the German people and the German soldiers had "enough" integrity for some purposes. In your OP, you did not seem to allow for the possibility of a sliding scale of integrity.




The next logical question is: In what areas do you believe the German people or the German soldiers in World War II lacked integrity?

Duh. There is always a sliding scale,

If I said the grass on my lawn had turned brown from the Sun would you ask me if any leaves of green grass remained?

On February 27, 1943, the war was going poorly for the German army, but Hitler was still bothered by the problem of Jews remaining in Berlin. There were only a couple of thousand, mostly men, left from what was once a flourishing Jewish community, but Hitler’s aim was to exterminate all the Jews.

And yet.

Rosenstrasse Rebellion: Berlin monument to the protest by German women to save their Jewish husbands

These remaining men were special. They were married to German women, the same women the Nazis venerated as the future of the Aryan race. They were, in Nazi-speak, privileged.

While others were being picked up and murdered, or worked to death in forced labor camps, these men held on to a tenuous life. Until February 27th when all the Jews remaining in Berlin were to be picked up.
The History of the Rosenstrasse Rebellion
I was standing in front of the monument on Rosentrasse (Rose Street) dedicated to the women who mounted what was probably the only peaceful and successful Nazi protest. My guide, Yael Goldberg, was telling me the story behind the pink-tinted sculpture.

The women were furious. “They had struggled through over 10 years of social humiliation and punishment and stress to protect their family, and suddenly their husband and children get picked up.”

http://www.offbeattravel.com/rosenstrasse-monument-berlin-germany.html

That was when women were housewives.

 

[TSR]

That was when women were housewives.

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So, these women showed their integrity by protesting against Hitler's plan to exterminate the Jews.

Which wasn't the plan, because otherwise there would have been protests.

Do you even read what you post anymore?
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[Clayton Moore]

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So, these women showed their integrity by protesting against Hitler's plan to exterminate the Jews.

Which wasn't the plan, because otherwise there would have been protests.

Do you even read what you post anymore?
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You need to read the link. They protested and saved their families.

 

[TSR]

You need to read the link. They protested and saved their families.

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Saved them from what? According to you, there was no plan to exterminate the Jews.
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[Clayton Moore]

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Saved them from what? According to you, there was no plan to exterminate the Jews.
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Quote:
On February 27, 1943, the war was going poorly for the German army, but Hitler was still bothered by the problem of Jews remaining in Berlin. There were only a couple of thousand, mostly men, left from what was once a flourishing Jewish community, but Hitler’s aim was to exterminate all the Jews.

That is what the Holocaust myth/lies tells us.

While others were being picked up and murdered, or worked to death in forced labor camps, these men held on to a tenuous life.

Another LIE.



The women were furious. “They had struggled through over 10 years of social humiliation and punishment and stress to protect their family, and suddenly their husband and children get picked up.”

10 years? Kinda dispels any notion that there was an extermination order.

So in 1943 those women told Himmler, Hitler, and any Nazi in earshot to stick their plans for extermination of Jews where the Sun doesn't shine with little fear of punishment for protecting Jewish people.


FYI AGAIN. People who see other people being worked to death are not going to be productive workers. People who are being worked to death are not going to be productive workers.

 

[Loss Leader]

The next logical question is: In what areas do you believe the German people or the German soldiers in World War II lacked integrity?

Duh. There is always a sliding scale, If I said the grass on my lawn had turned brown from the Sun would you ask me if any leaves of green grass remained?

And yet.

Rosenstrasse Rebellion: Berlin monument to the protest by German women to save their Jewish husbands http://www.offbeattravel.com/rosenstrasse-monument-berlin-germany.html That was when women were housewives.

You have utterly failed to answer my question. I asked you: In what areas do you believe the German people or the German soldiers in World War II lacked integrity?

 

[TSR]

10 years? Kinda dispels any notion that there was an extermination order.

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... unless the said extermination order was the end game of a decade long campaign to marginalize Jews.

Or does integrity suggest that the Nuremberg laws were never passed?
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So in 1943 those women told Himmler, Hitler, and any Nazi in earshot to stick their plans for extermination of Jews where the Sun doesn't shine with little fear of punishment for protecting Jewish people.

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But according to you, there was no plan from which to protect them.

Please choose a side: If the Holocaust happened, then the German women stood up for what was right.

If it didn't then there was no integrity involved in the protest.

Or was that something else that never happened?
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[Clayton Moore]

You have utterly failed to answer my question. I asked you: In what areas do you believe the German people or the German soldiers in World War II lacked integrity?

It wasn't a question. It's misdirection and nonsense. A cause why classic.

 

[Clayton Moore]

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... unless the said extermination order was the end game of a decade long campaign to marginalize Jews.

Or does integrity suggest that the Nuremberg laws were never passed?
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But according to you, there was no plan from which to protect them.

Please choose a side: If the Holocaust happened, then the German women stood up for what was right.

If it didn't then there was no integrity involved in the protest.

Or was that something else that never happened?
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There was no extermination plan. There didn't have to be.

They succeeded in preventing their loved ones from going to work camps which were work camps. No less, no more.

 

[Kid Eager]

another thread that's managed to become an ersatz holocaust denial venue.

Please move to conspiracy theories or AAH....

 

[TSR]

There was no extermination plan. There didn't have to be.

They succeeded in preventing their loved ones from going to work camps which were work camps. No less, no more.

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So you were lying when you stated:
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So in 1943 those women told Himmler, Hitler, and any Nazi in earshot to stick their plans for extermination of Jews where the Sun doesn't shine with little fear of punishment for protecting Jewish people.

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And no, there didn't have to be. But there was, just the same.

BTW, what about the decade preceding the work camps? What exactly did those Jewish men do to deserve that persecution and being sent to work camps. anyway?

Did they have too much integrity?
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[Clayton Moore]

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So you were lying when you stated:
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And no, there didn't have to be. But there was, just the same.

BTW, what about the decade preceding the work camps? What exactly did those Jewish men do to deserve that persecution and being sent to work camps. anyway?

Did they have too much integrity?
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The women were furious. “They had struggled through over 10 years of social humiliation and punishment and stress to protect their family, and suddenly their husband and children get picked up.”

10 years? Kinda dispels any notion that there was an extermination order.

So in 1943 those women told Himmler, Hitler, and any Nazi in earshot to stick their plans for extermination of Jews where the Sun doesn't shine with little fear of punishment for protecting Jewish people.

You forgot
Kinda dispels any notion that there was an extermination order.

 

[Loss Leader]

It wasn't a question. It's misdirection and nonsense. A cause why classic.

And that answers the question of your integrity.

 

[TSR]

You forgot
Kinda dispels any notion that there was an extermination order.

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No, I didn't, because no, it doesn't.

It dispels a notion that *you* have that such an order eliminates any possibility of any other order being issued before it -- which it doesn't, and making that claim merely points out again your bone-deep ignorance of the history you are so rabid to deny. But no one but you entertains that notion anyway, so it's kinda a moot point.

Nor did you forget the Nuremeberg laws and the reasons the Nazis had for sending each of those individuals to "work camps" anyway: your complete lack of integrity makes you believe nio one notices your having run from the ramifications of those to your little fantasy. As I said, not question of forgetting, a conscious choice to avoid disturbing the depths of your hate.
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[Dogzilla]

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So, these women showed their integrity by protesting against Hitler's plan to exterminate the Jews.

These women didn't protest against Hitler's plan to exterminate the Jews. Hitler never planned to exterminate the Jews. The women protested against their Jewish husbands being arrested. The protest was successful and the men were returned to their wives.

If there had been a plan to exterminate all the Jews, why would these Jews have been returned to their families?

Which wasn't the plan, because otherwise there would have been protests.

Do you even read what you post anymore?
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Do you try to write coherently?

 

[Nick Terry]

These women didn't protest against Hitler's plan to exterminate the Jews. Hitler never planned to exterminate the Jews. The women protested against their Jewish husbands being arrested. The protest was successful and the men were returned to their wives.

If there had been a plan to exterminate all the Jews, why would these Jews have been returned to their families?

The plan to exterminate Jews excluded deporting the minority of German and Austrian Jews married to 'Aryans', up until the 'Aryan' spouse died or divorced them, at which point the Jewish spouse was deported.

This is a sufficiently well known fact (discussed at length in that book by Hilberg you keep pretending to have read) that not to get it is a bit of a fail, really.

As for the specific context for the Rosenstrasse protest, look it up on Wiki; if you cannot master even that kind of basic source, then that's also a fail.

 

[LemmyCaution]

If there had been a plan to exterminate all the Jews, why would these Jews have been returned to their families?

Do you not know anything about this incident? Have you heard of the Fabrikaction? The Nuremberg Laws? The Wannsee Conference? What is meant by a mixed marriage, a privileged or non-privileged mixed marriage? Do you know who the people involved in this incident were, why they were seized and held, and why they were released?

While the women did not protest extermination, the release of these men in mixed marriages had nothing to do with the extermination of Jews not in mixed marriages, for example, during this time period.

You should be aware that there are actual books and articles written about this stuff, the reading of which would help keep you from floundering around with your wild, uninformed guesses and flouting your ignorance. Google Nathan Stoltzfus, for example, to find a long treatment, or check out pp 424-425 of this http://books.google.com/books?id=7K...=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=rosenstrasse&f=false for a brief treatment of this incident.