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Why vegans are simply better people

Thanks. Well thought out and well written post. I fully accept speciesism is alive and well in the human race. I would find that few people other than perhaps Buddhists are not speciests. Most of us would swat flies or kill ants or rodents that have moved into our homes.


I moved to Tucson at the age of 21, just beginning my Zen practice, and encountered a creature that I was utterly unfamiliar with ...

roaches.

At first I thought I could coexist with them and managed to until one night, while sleeping, one ran across my chest. From that point on it was DEATH TO ROACHES!

Boric acid and powdered sugar became part of my Buddhism.
 
I moved to Tucson at the age of 21, just beginning my Zen practice, and encountered a creature that I was utterly unfamiliar with ...

roaches.

At first I thought I could coexist with them and managed to until one night, while sleeping, one ran across my chest. From that point on it was DEATH TO ROACHES!

Boric acid and powdered sugar became part of my Buddhism.
Understood. :)
 
Damn...this thread got good again, cheers guys.

I'll wear the label of speciesist if I have to as I don't consider it anywhere near as severe as a moral crime as, say racist. But like racism and sexism, speciesism is always going to read it's head in these types of discussions.

Yep, death to roaches as well as their kin, mosquitoes and no see ums. I just bought an arsenal of chemical weapons and plan on dispatching every one of these suckers that enters my space with extreme prejudice.

I certainly don't enjoy the fact that a pig died to produce that pork chop I had last night preferring instead to consider the pig's death as "necessary" in order to improve the quality of my life.
 
I moved to Tucson at the age of 21, just beginning my Zen practice, and encountered a creature that I was utterly unfamiliar with ...

roaches.

At first I thought I could coexist with them and managed to until one night, while sleeping, one ran across my chest. From that point on it was DEATH TO ROACHES!

Boric acid and powdered sugar became part of my Buddhism.

I have mice. No idea wtf to do. They were living under the floor in the kitchen originally and I was happy to co-exist but now a family have moved in in the vent next to my bed and the main guy is becoming way too overfamiliar, he has no problem having a go at anything I leave out evven if I'm sitting in the room next to him.

Can't use traps or poison, that's out of the question, but even using peppermint oil or the such means I'll be displacing a family. It's a bit of an ethical quandary for me.

Any suggestions, zen?
 
I have mice. No idea wtf to do. They were living under the floor in the kitchen originally and I was happy to co-exist but now a family have moved in in the vent next to my bed and the main guy is becoming way too overfamiliar, he has no problem having a go at anything I leave out evven if I'm sitting in the room next to him.

Can't use traps or poison, that's out of the question, but even using peppermint oil or the such means I'll be displacing a family. It's a bit of an ethical quandary for me.

Any suggestions, zen?

A cat. I used to have mice and no cat, now I have a cat and no mice.
 
A cat. I used to have mice and no cat, now I have a cat and no mice.

Thing is, there's a family of cats living under the house, but their really stand-offish. Haven't been able to forge a connection with them yet.
 
I have mice. No idea wtf to do. They were living under the floor in the kitchen originally and I was happy to co-exist but now a family have moved in in the vent next to my bed and the main guy is becoming way too overfamiliar, he has no problem having a go at anything I leave out evven if I'm sitting in the room next to him.

Can't use traps or poison, that's out of the question, but even using peppermint oil or the such means I'll be displacing a family. It's a bit of an ethical quandary for me.

Any suggestions, zen?
Live trap them and re-locate to a nice woodsy area but you still need to find out where they are getting in and seal it up or you are in for re-capture.

Este
 
The novelty of living with vermin wears off real quick. Right now they're pissing and crapping all over your space and real soon, you're going to be able to smell that. There's also the pleasure of having one of these suckers die somewhere, somewhere you can't find but can sure smell, unless you're lucky enough to have it dry out before it begins to rot. Not only is the smell an issue, but there's the maggots and resulting flies to deal with too.

Then there's the fact that mice will eat, or try to eat almost anything including your clothing, bedding, electrical wires, furniture yada yada before "discovering" the joys of living behind your fridge with it's little drip pan that serves as a constant supply of water.

Sure, try the live traps, set the critters back in the wild while singing Born Free but you have to give yourself a deadline then be prepared to go all atavistic, make yourself some nasty weapons and do the deeds that need to be done.
 
I moved to Tucson at the age of 21, just beginning my Zen practice, and encountered a creature that I was utterly unfamiliar with ...

roaches.

At first I thought I could coexist with them and managed to until one night, while sleeping, one ran across my chest. From that point on it was DEATH TO ROACHES!

Boric acid and powdered sugar became part of my Buddhism.

Try raw cucumber skins and diatomaceous earth. I can't use it here in NYC because it's not EPA-approved for professional pesticide use, but you can. I try to discourage people from using Boric acid because in my experience, people use too much of it and pets and little kids can get sick from it.

http://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Labratories-Diatomaceous-Earth-Shaker/dp/B00127Q860

Michael
 
Live trap them and re-locate to a nice woodsy area but you still need to find out where they are getting in and seal it up or you are in for re-capture.

Este

100% correct. The best way to seal up the hole is in three steps.

1: place some packets of poison in the hole or wall/floor void (to help eliminate any that may be there once you cut off their exit point),

2: stuff the hole with steel wool (which cannot be chewed through, but can be pushed aside if not reinforced),

3: use spray foam insulation to completely seal up the hole (which can be chewed through but not pushed aside).

You can also use concrete mixed in with broken glass to seal up the hole. If the mice are avoiding whatever poison you're using, try mixing it in with tuna fish (oil packed, not water) or mixing powdered sugar and dry plaster in a bowl together and leaving it out for a few days.

Michael
 
What's funny is, you might live longer than him. He just assumes a vegan lifestyle makes you live longer and healthier.
A growing body of evidence suggests that he is correct:

Mayo Clinic said:
A well-planned vegetarian diet is a healthy way to meet your nutritional needs. link

NCBI said:
vegetarians have shown a moderate reduction in mortality from IHD link

George Washington University School of Medicine said:
A low-fat vegan diet improves glycemic control and cardiovascular risk factors in ... individuals with type 2 diabetes link

American Diabetes Association said:
A Low-Fat Vegan Diet Helps Improves Glucose Control and Heart Health link

Loma Linda University said:
Vegetarians May Be at Lower Risk of Heart Disease, Diabetes and Stroke link

Caldwell Esselstyn said:
a plant-based, oil-free diet can not only prevent and stop the progression of heart disease, but also reverse its effects link
I could go on at length.
 
A growing body of evidence suggests that he is correct:












I could go on at length.

Can you cite the works? What are they comparing to, the average American diet? Pretty much any diet would be an improvement, allowing you to live longer and enjoy a better quality of life.

ETA: Sorry, missed the links. You hid them in plain view! :D
 
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A growing body of evidence suggests that he is correct:

I sugest its possible many of those benefits are mostly from just not being overweight, not necessarily form the vegan vegetarian diet at all ... the difference might seem subtle ... but eating vegan vegetarian would seem t make it much easier to have a low calorie diet, and the resulting "lack of over weightness" could be the main benefit.

Hey just IMO, ... and something to think about
 
I sugest its possible many of those benefits are mostly from just not being overweight, not necessarily form the vegan vegetarian diet at all ... the difference might seem subtle ... but eating vegan vegetarian would seem t make it much easier to have a low calorie diet, and the resulting "lack of over weightness" could be the main benefit.

Hey just IMO, ... and something to think about

I wasn't too impressed with what the links had to say. For instance:

Cohort studies of vegetarians have shown a moderate reduction in mortality from IHD but little difference in other major causes of death or all-cause mortality in comparison with health-conscious non-vegetarians from the same population. Studies of cancer have not shown clear differences in cancer rates between vegetarians and non-vegetarians. More data are needed, particularly on the health of vegans and on the possible impacts on health of low intakes of long-chain n-3 fatty acids and vitamin B(12). Overall, the data suggest that the health of Western vegetarians is good and similar to that of comparable non-vegetarians.

Doesn't seem to be any advantage to the vegetarian/vegan diet.

Plus:
...the nutritional content and health effects of the average diet of well-educated vegetarians...

To have the same nutritional value in their diet, vegetarians and vegans had to be well educated while meat eaters merely had to be "health conscious." :D
 

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