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UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

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The BME study is one statistical study that if applied to the principle by which the null hypothesis is tested, does suggest that the null hypothesis is probably false.

NOTE: "It is important to understand that the null hypothesis can never be proven." ( Wikipedia )

So remember that any suggestion here that the null hypothesis needs to be proven false before is can be concluded that it is probably false is a faulty application of the null hypothesis.

From Wikipedia:

"Hypothesis testing works by collecting data and measuring how likely the particular set of data is, assuming the null hypothesis is true. If the data-set is very unlikely, defined as belonging to a set of data that only rarely will be observed (usually in less than either 5% of the time or 1% of the time), the experimenter rejects the null hypothesis concluding it (probably) is false."

So as you can see, the skeptic's application of the null hypothesis here has no real value in determining the absolute truth, existence, or nature of UFOs. It's a pointless excercise that isn't suited to and wasn't designed for the study of ufology. It's main place is in the testing of medical treatments and other biological experiments where the effects are too complex to measure with absolute certainty. I've mentioned this before, even provided links to the statistician who developed the null hypothesis in the first place, yet it has continued to be ignored by the skeptics here who have continued to misrepresent me on the issue with statements suggesting I came up with it or that it's "my hypothesis". It is no such thing. I address it here only for the sake of discussion.

So you still don't understand the null hypothesis then... either that or you are deliberately avoiding having to face it... It's almost as if the latest issue of (eye of) Squid Fishing Monthly predicted this just yesterday when it hit the news stands.

Squid-Mag5.jpg
 
Can anyone in the U.S. give us details of the various candidates' platforms on flying saucers? I am assuming they have all had the Air Force briefings. Economies going down the toilet, Iran arming up with nukes? That can all wait! Haven't our leaders heard that we have have conclusive evidence of visitation by an alien civilization?
 
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I didn't have time to read the whole thread, so pardon me if I am repeating a thought. When I was a kid (to early teens) I soaked up books about UFO's and Bigfoot, and ghosts, etc. I'd go outside, stare at the sky, and hope to see a strange alien craft hover above.

As time has gone by though I have noticed that UFO sightings and Bigfoot sightings follow the same parameters. Blurry photos, plenty of hoaxes (though believers will swear the photos are real until proven fake), and absolutely no physical evidence that such craft exist. Sure---they can "claim" there is physical evidence (Area 51), but there is nothing concrete after 60+ years of scrutiny.

I am now convinced that Bigfoot does not exist, and I am 90% sure UFO's don't exist either. The only thing that has ever caught my attention, though it sounds silly also, is the 10% chance that the "craft" are actually time machines from the future, that elude radar detection and come and go quickly as they move from one dimension to another. This cannot be proved either, so even that 10% is extremely unlikely.

Think about the fact that one man--D.B. Cooper, "disappeared", in the midst of a huge forested area, yet they found some of his money there years later. Think about it, just one man, yet he leaves evidence that what he did was real! Yet years and years later there is still no physical evidence that either UFO's, or Bigfoot exist. You may say I am quite cynical--but I simply call it "facing the facts".

Nitpick : UFO *do* exists, by definition it only means you saw something floating in the sky and don't know what it was (real object / alien/ optical illusion /B insects / baloon / blimp... :D). What youa re probably 90% sure is that those UFO are not alien from outer space (which is confirmed by the next paragraph desacribing your belief).
 
The BME study is one statistical study that if applied to the principle by which the null hypothesis is tested, does suggest that the null hypothesis is probably false.

Probably?? :boggled:

You don’t falsify the null hypothesis with a ‘probably’ based on your wishful thinking about the existence of aliens in metal space ships. You falsify with incontrovertible, verifiable, objective evidence! Duh.

As Stray Cat has pointed out, you still don’t get the concept of the null hypothesis. In fact, I think you’re getting confused because not only don’t you understand how experimental and null hypotheses work to complement each other, you also haven’t understood statistical significance and probabilities. You appear to be conflating the definition of probability in statistics with the use of the word “probably” in everyday conversation.

They are not the same thing. You can’t go bandying around that UFOs are “probably” not of mundane origin when not a single UFO has ever been shown to be of non-mundane origin. I explain this a little more at the end of this post.

NOTE: "It is important to understand that the null hypothesis can never be proven." ( Wikipedia )

Yes, I’m well aware the null hypothesis can never be proven, thanks, that’s why the aim is to falsify it, not prove it. Remember when Mr Timbo, the science teacher, was telling you about flipped coins turning into butterflies? You can’t observe every single coin flip in the whole world, which you would need to do in order to prove the null hypothesis, so you set about finding one single incidence of a flipped coin turning into a butterfly.

Do you understand this? That is, the difference between proving something to be true by observing an infinite number of events, and falsifying it by observing just one?

So remember that any suggestion here that the null hypothesis needs to be proven false before is can be concluded that it is probably false is a faulty application of the null hypothesis.From Wikipedia:

"Hypothesis testing works by collecting data and measuring how likely the particular set of data is, assuming the null hypothesis is true. If the data-set is very unlikely, defined as belonging to a set of data that only rarely will be observed (usually in less than either 5% of the time or 1% of the time), the experimenter rejects the null hypothesis concluding it (probably) is false."

“Probably” is completely meaningless in a situation where not a single UFO has been demonstrated to be of alien origin. See in that passage above where it says “only rarely will be observed”? There’s the rub, Floggy. It’s not that people go out and observe Alien Space Ships rarely; an Alien Space Ship has never been observed. Not ever! Not 5 times out of every 100 (95% probability of not being an Alien Space Ship), or even 1 time out of every 100 (one ASS out of every 100 UFOs).

Statistical probability is used in science where at least two outcomes have been observed, but then the probability of either one or other outcome needs to be calculated. That’s why it’s only muddying the waters here. It really is much simpler than this.

Mr Timbo will be back from break in a minute, I’m sure he’ll be able to explain this to you better than I can.

So as you can see, the skeptic's application of the null hypothesis here has no real value in determining the absolute truth, existence, or nature of UFOs. It's a pointless excercise that isn't suited to and wasn't designed for the study of ufology. It's main place is in the testing of medical treatments and other biological experiments where the effects are too complex to measure with absolute certainty. I've mentioned this before, even provided links to the statistician who developed the null hypothesis in the first place, yet it has continued to be ignored by the skeptics here who have continued to misrepresent me on the issue with statements suggesting I came up with it or that it's "my hypothesis". It is no such thing. I address it here only for the sake of discussion.

No, the null hypothesis is very valuable in determining the existence (or lack of) evidence for UFOs being Alien Space Ships. Forget fretting about statistical significance, Floggy, it’s only confusing you further.
 
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Tauri I think your efforts are likely to be wasted as probability, possibility and plausibility are alienconcepts to folofoo. Tis folly to exect such from fology.
 
Tauri I think your efforts are likely to be wasted as probability, possibility and plausibility are alienconcepts to folofoo. Tis folly to exect such from fology.

That may be but there are surely others out there who would miss such postings. I am taking food for thought. Please keep them coming, Tauri.
 
Since you soaked up so many UFO books you also know that bigfoot sightings and UFO sightings have some significant differences. Sure they both share the blurry picture syndrome, but UFOs have also been tracked on radar.
And FLIR. The dishonest UFOlogists always forget FLIR.

There are also a big difference in the quality and number of witnesses and the depth of investigation. For example trained and on duty pilots, police, armed forces personnel have observed them and officially reported them, not simply backpackers, hillbillies or weekend campers. They were also the subject of official study by the USAF for over 20 years, and have also been the subject of investigation by the Air Forces of other countries.
And the USAF ceased to investigate them when it determined that they weren't likely to be of extraterrestrial origin. Bigfoot is still being investigated by professional researchers. Witches have more evidence for them than UFOs as Alien Space Ships.

Why are you so dead set against witches? What assumptions are you making?

Perhaps if there were hundreds of reports from police and forest rangers who say they saw a bigfoot, some of them in the daytime while chasing them, then there might be some level of comparison. Air Force bases don't scramble fighter jets without a good reason. Yet the skeptics here would have you believe they would scramble them if someone merely phoned in and said they saw witches on broomsticks over Washington DC ... UFOs are way different than bigfoot and witches.
No, they're exactly the same. You just want them to be different because they're your pet subject.

Witches were found guilty of witchcraft in court where, due to the legal process and discovery, it is unlikely that a court would find someone guilty of witchcraft who wasn't. Can you cite a court case where a UFO was found to be an Alien Space Ship?

People of good character and repute, governors and mayors and leading citizens, people of the church, all credible witnesses have all reported witches. You can't compare those upstanding citizens with the Kelly, Kentucky hicks who, while on a drunken bender, reported aliens invading their yard and even used shotguns to shoot holes through their door.

Witches are a near certainty. The likelihood of witches not existing is approximately 1 in 2 billion, double the llikelihood of UFOs as Alien Space Ships.
 
The BME study is one statistical study that if applied to the principle by which the null hypothesis is tested, does suggest that the null hypothesis is probably false.

NOTE: "It is important to understand that the null hypothesis can never be proven." ( Wikipedia )

So remember that any suggestion here that the null hypothesis needs to be proven false before is can be concluded that it is probably false is a faulty application of the null hypothesis.

Let's apply ufologic to the hypothesis that some flipped coins turn into butterflies then.

The null hypothesis to that is:

No flipped coins turn into butterflies​
ufology contends that, because this null hypothesis can never be proven, it must therefore be false.

ufology believes that some flipped coins turn into butterflies.

Is there anything wrong with that logic, fo?
 
....
Witches were found guilty of witchcraft in court where, due to the legal process and discovery, it is unlikely that a court would find someone guilty of witchcraft who wasn't. Can you cite a court case where a UFO was found to be an Alien Space Ship?

People of good character and repute, governors and mayors and leading citizens, people of the church, all credible witnesses have all reported witches. You can't compare those upstanding citizens with the Kelly, Kentucky hicks who, while on a drunken bender, reported aliens invading their yard and even used shotguns to shoot holes through their door.

Witches are a near certainty. The likelihood of witches not existing is approximately 1 in 2 billion, double the llikelihood of UFOs as Alien Space Ships.

A fine presentation of some of the witchcraft evidence, but a bit superfluous considering the solid evidence of them presented in post 15988.
(Yes, there were pegasi too but we all know those exist.)
 
[qimg]http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/Floogoscope2.gif[/qimg]​
Awesome floogoscope is awesome! :D

I trust none of you silly pilots will ever mistake me and my sisters for oil well fires ever again.

Oil well fires! I mean, really! :boggled:
 
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Awesome floogoscope is awesome! :D
Isn't it just.
I can't wait for Brad Sparks to get his mitts on some tapes from this baby so he examine them in detail and write a long article about it. :boggled:

I trust none of you silly pilots will ever mistake me and my sisters for oil well fires ever again.

Oil well fires! I mean, really! :boggled:
Sorry, not responding to this part.
I refuse to respond to posts that contain flames.
 
Please explain. And if you could use specific and relevant examples rather than generalizations.

It would be a lot better if you took the time to read the actual report but whatever. It's been discussed to death before and this post by me from february last year summarizes most of it:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6904026#post6904026

Also this one from Access Denied:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6945687#post6945687
 
Probably?? :boggled:

You don’t falsify the null hypothesis with a ‘probably’ based on your wishful thinking about the existence of aliens in metal space ships. You falsify with incontrovertible, verifiable, objective evidence! Duh.

... blah blah blah ...

No, the null hypothesis is very valuable in determining the existence (or lack of) evidence for UFOs being Alien Space Ships. Forget fretting about statistical significance, Floggy, it’s only confusing you further.


The entire working principle of the null hypothesis is based on probability, yet you tell me to forget statistical significance. This is the best example I've seen yet of your self-serving ignorance of the facts in the face of independent information such as the Wikipedia article. And I've made no determination based on "wishful thinking". The study was performed by independent analysists who used official USAF records and although the conclusions don't use the words "alien space ships" neither do I, I use the word "alien" which I have pointed out is synonymous with "unknown" when viewed in the context of the study. Explained further here.
 
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I use the word "alien" which I have pointed out is synonymous with "unknown" when viewed in the context of the study.

So everyone has aliens in their pockets and hit & run drivers are aliens, according to ufology. You did look up synonym as I advised, didn't you?
 
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