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Dragon Family lawsuit against the United Nations

Mojo said:
It is if "evidence doesn't change the truth".
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No, determining the truth is a process in which attempts are made to find out what the truth is.

Determining the truth about the bonds will not change the bonds.
 
Anders Lindman said:
No, determining the truth is a process in which attempts are made to find out what the truth is.
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Indeed, and it won't change it, therefore it is determining "what the truth ALREADY is".

Determining the truth about the bonds will not change the bonds.
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Obviously. But the truth about the bonds can only be determined by looking at the evidence.
 
Tomblvd said:
So you are more than happy to believe that the Vatican has "assassins" to keep their control of the world's governments.

You are also perfectly fine, and have stated so on other threads that doctors and researchers knowingly force dangerous and uneffective vaccines on children just for the profit.

Yet you cannot fathom there are a small percentage of lawyers who will file frivolous lawsuits in order to make a quick buck.

I'm stunned beyond all possible disbelief.
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Whoa! Hold on a minute. I haven't said that doctors force vaccines on children for profit.

It may be possible that some lawyer would file an outrageous lawsuit if he or she got a ridiculously large amount of money, but that would almost be like a conspiracy in itself.
 
Mojo said:
Obviously. But the truth about the bonds can only be determined by looking at the evidence.
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For us who don't know the answer yet, yes. SOME people already know the truth. That's for sure. Unless it's a hoax so complex and messy that nobody really knows what the hell is going on, lol. :D
 
Mojo said:
They only know the truth because, in some way or other, they are already aware of the relevant evidence.
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They are aware of the bonds (or the absence of the bonds). The term 'evidence' is redundant for those who already know the truth. What, for example, is the evidence for 2+2=4? What is the evidence for you having a body? What is the evidence for the existence of the sun?

That made me think that the truth is simple. It's all the disinfo, lies, smokescreens, secrecy and so on that makes the situation messy. What an enormous amount of effort people spend on sorting out mess that really only is a result of manipulation and protection strategies. And we usually take all immense friction and conflict as something normal! We really are an immature civilization.
 
Garrison said:
You really have this backwards, it's only by studying the evidence that the truth can be determined.You don't simply get to pick whatever truth you want and then ignore all the evidence that contradicts it; well based on your posts perhaps you do but the rest of the world tends to use evidence to determine the truth.
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He drags this out when he's running out of steam. It's his way of hand-waving away the perfectly obvious, that there's no evidence to support his rather odd beliefs.
 
Craig4 said:
I assure I do not associate the words, "your role" and "significance". Now, what are try to accomplish here?
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You wrote that I'm not taken seriously. Which means that you do connect my role with what significance it has. Otherwise you wouldn't be concerned about me being taken seriously or not. That's what significance is about. So your logic is flawed.

My role is to present the case as an independent party. I thought you had figured that out by now. Again, this shows how weak your reasoning skills are. Maybe that's why you need to ask the same question a zillion times, eh?
 
If that were true, and you were an "indipendant party" and not "a believer" whyare you trying to argue something is. TRUE even when there is no evidence to support it? Why post it here, when itis fiction?

Either the bonds are real or not? Well, unless you have evidence either way, and cant be bothered to readthe document you posted the link for to find out, we have no reason to suspect they are.

Why discuss something if you cant be bothered to be told it isn't true?
 
Tomtomkent said:
If that were true, and you were an "indipendant party" and not "a believer" whyare you trying to argue something is. TRUE even when there is no evidence to support it? Why post it here, when itis fiction?

Either the bonds are real or not? Well, unless you have evidence either way, and cant be bothered to readthe document you posted the link for to find out, we have no reason to suspect they are.

Why discuss something if you cant be bothered to be told it isn't true?
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I can't get hold of the bonds, and even if I could, I wouldn't be able to tell if they are fake or not. So we have to wait for what the court says, and I myself remain independent without any claim about the bonds. It would be fun imo if the bonds were real, but the important thing is what the actual truth is. Independent means that I'm not necessarily defending the lawsuit.
 
Mojo said:
How do they "already know the truth" if not from evidence?

Do they have some sort of sooper-seecrit Vatican truthometer that can determine truth without evidence?
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For for example those who have the bonds the truth is known directly. You can call it evidence if you want but it's rather redundant. As a comparison, let's say you have a one dollar bill in your pocket. What is the evidence for that? You can pick it up and see it directly so the truth is self-evident in that case. The same for those who have the bonds (if they really exist) in their possession.

For the court evidence of course needs to be presented, such as the plaintiff showing examples of the bonds. And experts will then examine the bonds to see if they are genuine or not.
 
Mojo said:
But you have access to the document. Why not read it and see what evidence it presents?
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The claim in the lawsuit is that the bonds are real. They are (at least some of them) special bonds it seems (pages 8-9):

"Upon information and belief, in order to effectuate this process, the Notes were printed to appear as if they were not produced from official origin and bear obvious imperfections, therefore easily deniable. However, when proper procedures are followed, the number of the Note and other linking identic data allows ultimate authentication and verification through the Federal Reserve System screening process and the presenting of the Note under the immunity shield allows effective use." -- Case 1:11-cv-08500-JFK Document 1
 
Anders Lindman said:
For for example those who have the bonds the truth is known directly. You can call it evidence if you want but it's rather redundant. As a comparison, let's say you have a one dollar bill in your pocket. What is the evidence for that? You can pick it up and see it directly...
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Yes, that would be pretty good evidence that I have a dollar bill.
 
Anders Lindman said:
Determining the truth is not the same as what the truth ALREADY is.
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And how will one determine what that truth actually is without examining the evidence? There may only be one truth but with two partys making opposing claims as to what that truth is how exactly would you go about determining which one is correct without looking at the evidence?
If this is truly a concept you can't/won't grasp then how can you even enter into a debate?
 
Mojo said:
Yes, we know that's the claim. What's the evidence?
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The article below talks about extensive evidence :eek::

"The legal filing is the result of extensive evidence gathering by international police and law-enforcement agencies including Interpol, the CIA, the Japanese Security Police and several Eastern European secret services. The action has the backing of the Pentagon and the armed forces of Russia and China." -- http://coupmedia.org/occupy-wall-street/lawsuit-threatens-federal-reserve-irs-and-nsa-3012

But how to confirm this I don't know. :confused:
 
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