Christians believe that they are superior to Jews

[tsig]

Not only do these posts engage in the same nonsense as the OP, they also (probably mistakenly, more likely jokingly) misrepresent the Jewish concept of "chosen". There's nothing more meritorious about it ("the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come"), merely a statement of mission: live according to a certain set of principles, as a people. Anyone else who wants to join can do so, but there's nothing more truthful about joining vs. not joining.





I asked the mohel to train me. He didn't have time, but offered me a few tips.

Oh noes, he didn't go there did he?

 

[David Swidler]

Oh noes, he didn't go there did he?

Thanks for being so circumspect.

 

[Leumas]

Not only do these posts engage in the same nonsense as the OP, they also (probably mistakenly, more likely jokingly) misrepresent the Jewish concept of "chosen". There's nothing more meritorious about it ("the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come"), merely a statement of mission: live according to a certain set of principles, as a people. Anyone else who wants to join can do so, but there's nothing more truthful about joining vs. not joining.

Some rabbi once said, "God, if we're the chosen people, why not choose someone else for a while?"

He chose Abraham and commanded him to move and what happens? A famine that forces Abraham to have to move from the so called "promised land".

He promises Abraham he will have countless children and descendants and what happens? 200 years later ALL SEVENTY Israelites had to migrate PERMANENTLY from the "promised land" due to a drought.

What happens to those chosen SEVENTY? Their descendants are eventually enslaved for hundreds of years....YHWH must have been impotent to prevent his "CHOSEN" from suffering such a misery and had to wait until he went to the Gym to gain some omnipotence against the Egyptian gods.

But even when under the new and improved semi-potent YHWH's Governance, the "chosen" suffered untold hardships due to the TOTALITARIANISM of his "puritan" rule and his INSATIABLE desire for interminable sacrifices when they could not even have water and food for themselves let alone enough to keep the hundreds of thousands of kettle and lambs and doves that were necessary to satiate his love for the "savory smell of burning flesh".

The poor "chosen" were subject to INTERMINABLE cycles of anger and bouts of JEALOUS BATTERING every time they even LOOKED at another god or did not look at him the exact way he demands.

To me that sounds like the most heinous ABUSIVE relationship.

"CHOSEN" in the sense of how a man chooses a wife and subjects her to an abusive violent vengeful marriage that she is not even allowed to get out of. And the poor wife goes into a psychological condition that tries to make sense of it all and convinces herself that he is only doing it out of love and that it must be her fault she got all those black eyes and bruises. If only she could be a better wife, more obedient, more servile. If only she bent over more often and more willingly.


So yes.... INDEED..... it would be infinitely better if YHWH "chose" someone else and not JUST for a while...for ever.


But the above TRAGEDY is compounded to even more absurd dimensions of a FARCE in that the husband of the poor and battered woman has been dead for a long time and she is in fact beating HERSELF up and the abusive husband is all a DELUSION as real as the one a PSYCHIATRIC WARD patient gets when she cuts her body up and hallucinates voices in her head.

It is like that final TWIST on the plot of Alfred Hitchcock’s Psycho where it turns out that the mother causing the poor man to go nuts is in fact himself.

 

[boyntonstu]

Didn't God/Jesus choose only the Christians to go to heaven through their belief in Jesus Christ?

 

[dafydd]

Didn't God/Jesus choose only the Christians to go to heaven through their belief in Jesus Christ?

No. God is an invention.

 

[tsig]

Thanks for being so circumspect.

We try to cut to the core here.

 

[boyntonstu]

No. God is an invention.

Of course!

We are only discussing the fiction novel "Bible" that billions believe as true.

 

[tsig]

Didn't God/Jesus choose only the Christians to go to heaven through their belief in Jesus Christ?

That would eliminate a lot of people from even having a chance to go to heaven.

 

[boyntonstu]

That would eliminate a lot of people from even having a chance to go to heaven.

Correct!

(Also fetuses and infants)

 

[MG1962]

Some rabbi once said, "God, if we're the chosen people, why not choose someone else for a while?"

Its a line spoken by the milkman Tevye in Fiddler On The Roof

 

[A'isha]

Correct!

(Also fetuses and infants)

Again, read up on something before you presume to talk about it. All the major sects of Christianity, Catholic and Protestant alike, believe that infants and even aborted fetuses have a chance for salvation and can go to heaven, even if they aren't baptized.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Not only do these posts engage in the same nonsense as the OP, they also (probably mistakenly, more likely jokingly) misrepresent the Jewish concept of "chosen". There's nothing more meritorious about it ("the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come"), merely a statement of mission: live according to a certain set of principles, as a people. Anyone else who wants to join can do so, but there's nothing more truthful about joining vs. not joining.

I wasn't sure if the person I was responding to was serious or not. But I have actually heard my interpretation of "Chosen People" used as an argument against antisemitism. I know that it is not one given by those knowledgeable about Jewism -- any more than the one in the post I responded to is.

(Just to clarify things )

 

[boyntonstu]

Again, read up on something before you presume to talk about it. All the major sects of Christianity, Catholic and Protestant alike, believe that infants and even aborted fetuses have a chance for salvation and can go to heaven, even if they aren't baptized.

Really? What are their chances in percent?

What about the folks living in the jungles?

 

[A'isha]

Really? What are their chances in percent?

What about the folks living in the jungles?

Didn't read that section of Lumen Gentium that I quoted for you, did you?

 

[Leumas]

Its a line spoken by the milkman Tevye in Fiddler On The Roof

Ah....I saw this movie a million years ago.... maybe I should watch it again....but I HATE musicals.

 

[David Swidler]

Some rabbi once said, "God, if we're the chosen people, why not choose someone else for a while?"

He chose Abraham and commanded him to move and what happens? A famine that forces Abraham to have to move from the so called "promised land".

He promises Abraham he will have countless children and descendants and what happens? 200 years later ALL SEVENTY Israelites had to migrate PERMANENTLY from the "promised land" due to a drought.

What happens to those chosen SEVENTY? Their descendants are eventually enslaved for hundreds of years....YHWH must have been impotent to prevent his "CHOSEN" from suffering such a misery and had to wait until he went to the Gym to gain some omnipotence against the Egyptian gods.

But even when under the new and improved semi-potent YHWH's Governance, the "chosen" suffered untold hardships due to the TOTALITARIANISM of his "puritan" rule and his INSATIABLE desire for interminable sacrifices when they could not even have water and food for themselves let alone enough to keep the hundreds of thousands of kettle and lambs and doves that were necessary to satiate his love for the "savory smell of burning flesh".

The poor "chosen" were subject to INTERMINABLE cycles of anger and bouts of JEALOUS BATTERING every time they even LOOKED at another god or did not look at him the exact way he demands.

To me that sounds like the most heinous ABUSIVE relationship.

"CHOSEN" in the sense of how a man chooses a wife and subjects her to an abusive violent vengeful marriage that she is not even allowed to get out of. And the poor wife goes into a psychological condition that tries to make sense of it all and convinces herself that he is only doing it out of love and that it must be her fault she got all those black eyes and bruises. If only she could be a better wife, more obedient, more servile. If only she bent over more often and more willingly.


So yes.... INDEED..... it would be infinitely better if YHWH "chose" someone else and not JUST for a while...for ever.


But the above TRAGEDY is compounded to even more absurd dimensions of a FARCE in that the husband of the poor and battered woman has been dead for a long time and she is in fact beating HERSELF up and the abusive husband is all a DELUSION as real as the one a PSYCHIATRIC WARD patient gets when she cuts her body up and hallucinates voices in her head.

It is like that final TWIST on the plot of Alfred Hitchcock’s Psycho where it turns out that the mother causing the poor man to go nuts is in fact himself.

Its a line spoken by the milkman Tevye in Fiddler On The Roof

Which about reflects the level of scholarship that went into the above rant. Leumas, your interpretation of the text doesn't say much about the topic of the thread, or even the slight derail that prompted this tirade. It does say a lot about you and your style of "debate." Lose the chip on the shoulder and you might be in for an interesting discussion. You might even learn something.

 

[Leumas]

Again, read up on something before you presume to talk about it. All the major sects of Christianity, Catholic and Protestant alike, believe that infants and even aborted fetuses have a chance for salvation and can go to heaven, even if they aren't baptized.

But that is only a modern thing. In the past they believed they went to hell and then they changed it to Limbo.

Baptists believe that if you are baptized the wrong (child or adult) way you still don't qualify. Some sects don’t even accept baptisms by other than theirs (e.g. Coptic).

 

[Leumas]

Which about reflects the level of scholarship that went into the above rant. Leumas, your interpretation of the text doesn't say much about the topic of the thread, or even the slight derail that prompted this tirade. It does say a lot about you and your style of "debate." Lose the chip on the shoulder and you might be in for an interesting discussion. You might even learn something.

I could make up lies like yours and say I forgot my IRONY surrounds to hide my lack of "research" like you tried to hide your lack of knowledge. But in this case none was done nor required.....since I got it from someone else and the whole post is sarcasm altogether which went way above your head which is not that hard apparently.

 

[David Swidler]

You really, really need to lighten up.

 

[A'isha]

But that is only a modern thing. In the pas they believed they went to hell and then they changed it to Limbo.

True, but irrelevant, since boyntonstu is talking about "Christianity" in the present tense.

Baptists believe that if you are baptized the wrong (child or adult) way you still don't qualify.

Baptists (the majority of them, anyway) don't believe in or practice infant baptism, so that's also irrelevant to the issue of whether they believe infants and fetuses can get into heaven or not.

Some sects don’t even accept baptisms by other than theirs (e.g. Coptic).

As I told boyntonstu, not every Christian sect, much less every individual Christian, believes the exact same things.