Vaccine/autism CT discussion

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Looks like I kicked tail and I did it all a Lone.

Time for you skeptics to chew on some humble pie.
Clayton,
I think everyone is simply tired of you bringing up the same 4 or 5 discredited points over and over and over and over again. They needed 30 or so minutes to catch their breath and bring themselves to explain, once again, why your points are distorted, lies, or misquotes. I stopped bothering a few months ago, because of your approach- post a erroneous idea, have it completely discredited, post another erroneous idea, have it completely discredited, change back to the first idea. I'm not sure what got me to participate again (I think it was your invisible febrile convulsions), but I don't think we will ever break you out of this loop no matter what we post.
 
Clayton,
I think everyone is simply tired of you bringing up the same 4 or 5 discredited points over and over and over and over again. They needed 30 or so minutes to catch their breath and bring themselves to explain, once again, why your points are distorted, lies, or misquotes. I stopped bothering a few months ago, because of your approach- post a erroneous idea, have it completely discredited, post another erroneous idea, have it completely discredited, change back to the first idea. I'm not sure what got me to participate again (I think it was your invisible febrile convulsions), but I don't think we will ever break you out of this loop no matter what we post.

He learned that technique as a holocaust denier
 
Clayton Moore said:
With all this terrible vaccine stuff going around surely the average human lifespan has gone way down over the last fifty years. Right?

I think there were 400,000 cases of Autism, total in 2010. A diminished, dependent segment of the population. Does that connect?

In 2010, Toyota recalled 400,000 cars. Does that mean vaccines caused that?

In 2010, heart disease killed 400,000 Americans. Does that mean vaccines caused that?

Etc...

Correlation does not imply causation.
 
Another head scratcher.

Gulf War Syndrome
ANTI-SQUALENE ANTIBODIES LINK
GULF WAR SYNDROME TO ANTHRAX VACCINE
Data published in the February 2000 and August 2002 issues of Experimental and Molecular Pathology strongly suggests that Gulf War Syndrome is caused by a vaccine contaminated with squalene.

The August 2002 article is entitled "Antibodies to Squalene in Recipients of Anthrax Vaccine" (Exp. Mol. Pathol. 73,19-27 (2002)).

Gulf War Syndrome, or GWS, is the term which has been applied to the multi-symptom rheumatic disorder experienced by many veterans of the 1990-1991 Persian Gulf war. A similar disorder appeared in 1990-1991-era personnel who were never deployed to the Persian Gulf theater of operations and also in other military personnel, including participants in the Anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program, or AVIP, which was inaugurated in 1997. No data has ever suggested that the disorder experienced by the deployed 1990-1991 soldiers is different from the disorder experienced by the other groups of patients, but the other cases have not been considered to be cases of GWS.

Squalene was found by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in five lots of the AVIP anthrax vaccine. The discovery of serum anti-squalene antibodies and the development of a test to detect these antibodies has made it possible to see that links appear to exist between the contaminated AVIP vaccine lots, the illness experienced by post-1997 vaccine recipients, the illness experienced by non-deployed 1990-1991-era patients, and the illness in deployed 1990-1991-era patients that has been referred to as GWS.

The data establishing these links is presented in the peer-reviewed February 2000 and August 2002 articles. The published findings (1) strongly suggest that the GWS-like illness being reported by all of the various patient groups is the same illness, (2) strongly suggest that the contaminated vaccine caused the illness in the AVIP group, and (3) further suggest that squalene contamination of one or more 1990-1991-era vaccines accounts for the GWS cases from that era.


Wow. Sound familiar? Just cant figure out the cause. Even with non-deployed troops getting GWS.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_syndrome#Ruled_out

Ruled out

Several potential causes beyond vaccinations, stress, and oil well fires—explained in more detail below—have been ruled out. Other ruled-out potential causes include Scud missile fuel and infectious diseases. Limited evidence from several sources suggests that an association with the combined effects of multiple neurotoxicant exposures and receipt of multiple vaccines can not be ruled out.[56]
[edit] Anthrax vaccine

Iraq had loaded anthrax, botulinum toxin, and aflatoxin into missiles and artillery shells in preparing for the Gulf War and that[clarification needed][vague] these munitions were deployed to four locations in Iraq.[57] During Operation Desert Storm, 41% of U.S. combat soldiers and 75% of UK combat soldiers were vaccinated against anthrax.[58] Reactions included local skin irritation, some lasting for weeks or months.[59] While the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved the vaccine, it never went through large scale clinical trials, unlike most other vaccines in the United States.[60] While recent studies have demonstrated the vaccine’s is highly reactogenic,[61] there is no clear evidence or epidemiological studies on Gulf War veterans linking the vaccine to Gulf War Syndrome. Combining this with the lack of symptoms from current deployments of individuals who have received the vaccine led the Committee on Gulf War Veterans’ Illnesses to conclude that the vaccine is not a likely cause of Gulf War illness for most ill veterans.[5]


http://www.veteranstoday.com/2007/0...airs-reports-73-thousand-u-s-gulf-war-deaths/


Department of Veterans Affairs Reports 73 Thousand U.S. Gulf War Deaths

More deaths from the ulf War than the Vietnam war, says the VA.More Gulf War Veterans have died than Vietnam Veterans
by Clive Boustred

The Department of Veterans Affairs, May 2007, Gulf War Veterans Information System reports the following:

Total U.S. Military Gulf War Deaths: 73,846
– Deaths amongst Deployed: 17,847
Deaths amongst Non-Deployed: 55,999



WHAT CAUSED GULF WAR SYNDROME?

Gulf war syndrome still eludes science

Soon after returning from the Persian Gulf war in 1991, U.S. veterans began complaining of strange symptoms: fatigue, joint pains, memory loss. The complaints were hard to dismiss — after all, these soldiers had been in combat-ready condition when they were shipped east to drive Iraq's army from Kuwait.

At first, the Pentagon denied that the syndrome existed, then asserted that it could have been caused by war-time chemical exposure. Although Iraq had repeatedly warned of its willingness to use chemical weapons, there was no hard evidence that it did. Nor could the incineration of Kuwait's oil fields have caused the problem, since many of the ill vets had not been exposed to the huge clouds of petro-fumes.

On Oct. 9, 1996, a prestigious committee of the National Academy of Science's Institute of Medicine concluded that there was no evidence for a mysterious chronic illness associated with Persian Gulf War service.

All ahead reverse!
The report barely hit the headlines when the dam broke. One revelation after another bespoke the possibility that some combination of toxic chemicals or biological agents had caused the syndrome.

It turned out that a major Iraqi ammunition dump detonated by U.S. soldiers had contained nerve gas, and that Gulf-War symptoms were appearing in ever-more vets.

After the Pentagon shifted into reverse and admitted that its vets were not simple malingerers, it turned gulf war syndrome into a heavily researched — and exceedingly frustrating — medical conundrum. Soldiers in the Gulf region were exposed to a bewildering variety of nasties: oil smoke, nerve gas, vaccines, depleted uranium, fuel, insecticides, anti-nerve-gas medicines — in addition to the usual dislocation, boredom, exhilaration and terror of wartime.
 
Another head scratcher.

Gulf War Syndrome
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Yeah, it's a head scratcher why you post this when the topic is vaccines giving children autism, not GWS to adults.

Especially since you seem to have missed
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Combining this with the lack of symptoms from current deployments of individuals who have received the vaccine led the Committee on Gulf War Veterans’ Illnesses to conclude that the vaccine is not a likely cause of Gulf War illness for most ill veterans.
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You really should do more than scan the sources you are being spoon fed and stop trying to use the God of the Gaps to support your delusions.
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Yeah, it's a head scratcher why you post this when the topic is vaccines giving children autism, not GWS to adults.

Really? First post of thread.

The proof of the pudding that there are conspiracies at high levels of society is media's insistence that there are NONE.

Let's see. Big pharma and the mainstream media insist vaccines are absolutely safe but close to NONE of the vaccines are tested with a control group. They have convinced much of the American public that questioning the safety of vaccines is criminal.

Yet commercial after commercial airs up front and personal that if you've taken DRUG X, Y, or Z contact my law firm. Now you know those drugs, I think ZOLOFT is the star of the newer ripe for litigation drugs, were supposed to be tested with a control group! What happened.

And the media pretty much crucifies anyone who dares suggest a link between autism and vaccines. Why would the media trust and speak out for an industry/community with such a poor drug testing track record?
 
Really? First post of thread.
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And your latest post refutes that. Here it is again:

Combining this with the lack of symptoms from current deployments of individuals who have received the vaccine led the Committee on Gulf War Veterans’ Illnesses to conclude that the vaccine is not a likely cause of Gulf War illness for most ill veterans.
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Another shoe gets ruined...

Not to mention not even the attempt to support the "criminal" allegation, and the rest that has been shown to be your usual fantasies. Although you've neglected to tell us how the Jooos are behind it all.
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And your latest post refutes that. Here it is again:


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Another shoe gets ruined...
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You missed the gist of mentioning that the "authorities" kinda swear up and down that it couldn't be vaccines. Sound familiar? Even when it seems most of the deaths were non deployed personnel.


The Department of Veterans Affairs, May 2007, Gulf War Veterans Information System reports the following:

Total U.S. Military Gulf War Deaths: 73,846
– Deaths amongst Deployed: 17,847
– Deaths amongst Non-Deployed: 55,999
 
You missed the gist of mentioning that the "authorities" kinda swear up and down that it couldn't be vaccines. Sound familiar? Even when it seems most of the deaths were non deployed personnel.
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No, I didn't. But you seem determined to ignore that they were more than just kinda *right*, given that inoculations have continued and yet GWS has not.

Just like you choose to ignore that not using the MMR has had no impact on the rate of ASD diagnoses.

Now, about that "criminal" accusation?
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No, I didn't. But you seem determined to ignore that they were more than just kinda *right*, given that inoculations have continued and yet GWS has not.


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Squalene was found by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in five lots of the AVIP anthrax vaccine. The discovery of serum anti-squalene antibodies and the development of a test to detect these antibodies has made it possible to see that links appear to exist between the contaminated AVIP vaccine lots, the illness experienced by post-1997 vaccine recipients, the illness experienced by non-deployed 1990-1991-era patients, and the illness in deployed 1990-1991-era patients that has been referred to as GWS.

I guess they ran out of contaminated anthrax vaccine.
 
I guess they ran out of contaminated anthrax vaccine.
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Ah, so now it's not the vaccine, it's the contaminate.

You're getting there.

Next up, *anything* can get contaminated. And we don't always know what causes specific instances of illness.

Case in point: http://news.brevardtimes.com/2011/12/walmart-recalls-enfamil-baby-formula.html and yet http://www.nydailynews.com/life-sty...sn-t-deadly-bacteria-company-article-1.996748

or

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...ella-recalls/2011/12/19/gIQAMMsK5O_story.html but you are in favour of ground turkey (averral by omission, remember?)

Are you starting to see the problem with your OP now?
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CM, how many times are you going to spam a claim with an accompanying link that actually proves it completely wrong before you actually read things for comprehension prior to posting them?
 
I think there were 400,000 cases of Autism, total in 2010. A diminished, dependent segment of the population. Does that connect?

And one thing they all did NOT have in common?

Vaccines.

Until you can explain how vaccines are responsible for a condition that they aren't present for in all cases, you've got nothing.

Game over.
 
I guess they ran out of contaminated anthrax vaccine.

And if you are going to continue with this idiocy, you'll have to explain where all the autistic members of the armed forces are. They've received a number of vaccines upon enlistment and deployment and there is no sign of any cases of autism.

Yet another fail.
 
Looks like I kicked tail and I did it all a Lone.

Time for you skeptics to chew on some humble pie.

No, you kicked tail because in your world there's nothing that's going to make you see the truth. You've decided that there is a conspiracy and found some members of the Idiot Crank Lobby with YouTube accounts who produced some crap to support your twisted idea. That's not proving a point <SNIP>. This of course is impacts nothing.

You also should have used "alone" instead of "a Lone".

Edited by Locknar: 
Edited, breach of rule 12.
 
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And if you are going to continue with this idiocy, you'll have to explain where all the autistic members of the armed forces are. They've received a number of vaccines upon enlistment and deployment and there is no sign of any cases of autism.

Yet another fail.

Who mentioned autism as the result of receiving the contaminated anthrax vaccine?
 
Who mentioned autism as the result of receiving the contaminated anthrax vaccine?

So you've gone from screeching about vaccines to only screeching about contaminated vaccines? Or are you just picking the argument flavor of the hour that best suits whatever alternate universe you're living in?
 
Returning for a moment to the topic of this thread, Clayton posted a link to an 11-month old alleged expose claiming, inter alia, that Wakefield was framed.

Surely if this claim was substantiated, there would have been a clamour in the press and everybody would have been posting the headlines???

So, where's the follow-up to the claim? Could it be that the claim was *wrong*?
 
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