Why vegans are simply better people

[Johny2x4]

What about the hundreds of animals "euthanized" by PETA (a term I use very loosely)? That has no excuse whatsoever and as a dog fan I find PETA utterly despicable because of it.

And there was also something about owning pets was evil or something but that one I´m not so sure.

I have nothing but contempt for PETA.

 

[Rat]

As I've said before, I'm a fan of the ALF. Modern-day abolitionists, and real heroes. There's no G.I. Bill for anonymously saving animals.

Anyway, you know who financial links to terrorists? U.S. taxpayers. Our government has also openly supported known dictators. We fund oppressive forces. Does that make the ALF's policies hunky-dory? No. Does it make many people in this thread self-righteous hypocrites. You bet.

I'm not American, but when the UK government support dictators, I condemn that support. When the ALF personally terrorize those who merely have professional relationships with people carrying out legal actions, it is terrorism and I condemn it. The only hypocrisy I see here is that my condemnation amounts to nothing more than words.

 

[Cain]

Sso why is ALF so determined to wipe out so many species? For instance, of killifish whose natural habitat has been wiped out by a volcano, but that are kept in captivity. ALF demands the return of the fish to their habitat, which is now a black, dry, hot, rough pile of cooled lava.

ALF simply hates everything. ALF has nothing going for it but hate, hate, and more hate.

Although I support the ALF on the whole, I had a major-major philosophical disagreement with them over what to do with killifish. Major.

 

[Cain]

I'm not American, but when the UK government support dictators, I condemn that support. When the ALF personally terrorize those who merely have professional relationships with people carrying out legal actions, it is terrorism and I condemn it. The only hypocrisy I see here is that my condemnation amounts to nothing more than words.

Are you proud of how the British empire seized slave ships in international waters, dispossessing Americans over their property without compensation? Do you support those tactics of intimidation and terror?

 

[truethat]

I had a friend of mine who was vegan and apparently really suffered from a lack of B12 or something. There are health issues with every kind of eating if you aren't careful.

I do make choices in what I eat, for example I only buy free range organic eggs and things like that. I almost never have eaten veal in my life, I also don't eat pork. I try to buy Halal meat instead of mass consumer meat. I try to be as mindful as possible of eating meat etc.

I also smoke and care very much about second hand smoke and polluting the environment etc.

I'm not sure what the OP is trying to say. Just wanted to add my two cents.

 

[RandFan]

I'm not American, but when the UK government support dictators, I condemn that support. When the ALF personally terrorize those who merely have professional relationships with people carrying out legal actions, it is terrorism and I condemn it. The only hypocrisy I see here is that my condemnation amounts to nothing more than words.

Agreed. Besides, it's a tu quoque argument. It is only valid if the person arguing against something, in this case terrorism, supports that thing. I don't.

 

[Rat]

Are you proud of how the British empire seized slave ships in international waters, dispossessing Americans over their property without compensation? Do you support those tactics of intimidation and terror?

I would find 'proud' a curious adjective to describe my attitude to actions undertaken by people 200 years ago, and to whom I have little or no relation. I cannot take your question seriously, nor believe that you meant it so. In the very unlikely event that you did, then it seems a little off-topic.

 

[Kid Eager]

Are you proud of how the British empire seized slave ships in international waters, dispossessing Americans over their property without compensation? Do you support those tactics of intimidation and terror?

I'm sorry, what has this to do with vegans?

 

[Rat]

I do make choices in what I eat, for example I only buy free range organic eggs and things like that. I almost never have eaten veal in my life, I also don't eat pork. I try to buy Halal meat instead of mass consumer meat. I try to be as mindful as possible of eating meat etc.

If your aim is animal welfare, do not buy halal meat. I'll repeat that: if your aim is animal welfare, do not buy halal meat. I have no idea where you got this idea.

 

[Rat]

I'm sorry, what has this to do with vegans?

I'm kind of assuming that there is supposed to be a parallel between those who interrupted the slave trade (because the slave trade is bad) and those who interrupt the abuse or alleged abuse of animals (the ALF).

 

[Cain]

I would find 'proud' a curious adjective to describe my attitude to actions undertaken by people 200 years ago, and to whom I have little or no relation.

That's fine, as I am personally inclined to agree, but then we're a small minority.

I cannot take your question seriously, nor believe that you meant it so. In the very unlikely event that you did, then it seems a little off-topic.

I don't think I take what you've said all that seriously either as you seem unwilling to engage and understand. The ALF's actions fall under a noble history of terrorism in the vein of British vigiliantism on the question of slavery, and so PETA's peripheral support is not to their shame.

I wish you the greatest luck in all your letters to the editor.

 

[truethat]

If your aim is animal welfare, do not buy halal meat. I'll repeat that: if your aim is animal welfare, do not buy halal meat. I have no idea where you got this idea.

Why?

Information is always good. I don't buy meat for animal welfare that would be kind of stupid don't you think?

I buy it because its a smaller butcher and the owners are "real" butchers isntead of some guy running a blade in the back of a supermarket where thousands of pounds of dead animals are yanked from the shelves each week and thrown out.

I don't like mass consumer types of stores and like to think that if the animal did die at least it didn't die to be thrown in the garbage.


Also when an animal has it's throat slit properly it is dead within seconds and to me it is more merciful. Many of the conditions used to mass slaughter animals are really concerned about the appearance of propriety to humans instead of the reality of what the animal feels. It may look more humane to humans but it is not necessarily better for the animal.

 

[Rat]

I don't think I take what you've said all that seriously either as you seem unwilling to engage and understand. The ALF's actions fall under a noble history of terrorism in the vein of British vigiliantism on the question of slavery, and so PETA's peripheral support is not to their shame.

I wish you the greatest luck in all your letters to the editor.

I think you're mistaking an unwillingness to understand with an unwillingness to agree. That I agree with the ultimate causes of some terrorists does not necessarily mean I agree with their actions in those causes' names.

 

[Dessi]

What about the hundreds of animals "euthanized" by PETA (a term I use very loosely)? That has no excuse whatsoever and as a dog fan I find PETA utterly despicable because of it.

PETA is pretty up front about its policy on euthanasia:

Until dog and cat overpopulation is brought under control through spaying and neutering, we must prevent the suffering of unwanted animals in the most responsible and humane way possible. Euthanasia, performed properly, is often the most compassionate option.

This is an unfortunate reality of animal shelters, some animals are euthanized. Unfortunately, some shelters are not equipped to euthanize humanely. In this press release, they describe:

We started working in North Carolina in 2000, after PETA was contacted by a police officer who was distressed by conditions in a county pound. North Carolina has the second-highest rate per capita of euthanasia in the country—35 animals killed annually for every 1,000 residents. Most do not die a humane death. When we step in to humanely euthanize animals—at no cost to the participating shelters—as we did in this instance, our involvement prevents animals from being shot to death with a .22 caliber firearm, gassed to death in an rusty metal box, or injected with a paralytic that causes slow suffocation without loss of consciousness. It prevents their suffering for weeks on end from disease and illness, or worse. In some of those places, dogs had drowned in floods and frozen to death in winter.

We are a “shelter of last resort,” offering a humane death to animals who would otherwise suffer a slow and painful end. To learn more about the conditions that led to our involvement in these North Carolina counties and about some of the many improvements we’ve been able to make, please visit http://www.HelpingAnimals.com/f-nc.asp.

A number of years ago, I volunteered at just one of these shelters in Nebraska. It was winter, one of our dogs became very sick with parvo. To avoid infecting the other animals, the owner of the shelter suggested putting the dog outside with 6 inches of fresh snow on the ground. They said it would be fine. The dog sat outside for an hour, shivering uncontrollably, so I put a blanket around it. I complained to the owner, they wouldn't bring the dog indoors.

Five hours later, I decided to check on the dog before going home for the day. The dog was dead, curled up on a ball with a thick layer of ice around it resulting from snow which had melted and re-froze around the dog. The owners forgot they'd put the dog out in the first place.

I should called the cops, animal welfare office, something. I didn't. It was the worst thing I'd ever seen in my life, a memory that will never go away.

Had the facility been better equipped, the dog could have been euthanized painlessly. Poo poo all over PETA you want, but euthanasia services it provides are invaluable.

And there was also something about owning pets was evil or something but that one I´m not so sure.

This is one of those pervasive myths that doesn't go away. See here:

And NO PETS! (or slaves, as PETA calls them) Don't forget that.

Incorrect. See PETA's fact sheet on pets:

We at PETA very much love the animal companions who share our homes, but we believe that it would have been in the animals' best interests if the institution of "pet keeping"—i.e., breeding animals to be kept and regarded as "pets"—never existed. The international pastime of domesticating animals has created an overpopulation crisis; as a result, millions of unwanted animals are destroyed every year as "surplus." [...]

Because domesticated animals retain many of their basic instincts and drives but are not able to survive on their own in the wild, dogs, cats, or birds, whose strongest desire is to be free, must be confined to houses, yards, or cages for their own safety. [...]

Contrary to myth, PETA does not want to confiscate animals who are well cared for and "set them free." What we want is for the population of dogs and cats to be reduced through spaying and neutering and for people to adopt animals (preferably two so that they can keep each other company when their human companions aren't home) from pounds or animal shelters—never from pet shops or breeders—thereby reducing suffering in the world.

See also, PETA fact sheeting on doing what's best for our companion animals:

Spay or neuter your dogs and cats.

Adopt from shelters—and don’t forget adult animals, who are often overlooked by people who want a puppy or a kitten.

If possible, adopt two animals. Animals need both human and animal companionship. Having an animal friend can help alleviate the boredom and loneliness of long hours spent waiting for you to come home.

Cats and dogs are safest and happiest living inside with their human families. For safety’s sake, they should only be allowed out into securely fenced areas or under close supervision.

Walk and play with your companion animals every day.

Make preparations for the care of your animal companion during difficult times, such as divorce or death.

Take strays to humanely run shelters.

Work within your community to legislate mandatory spaying and neutering. See PETA’s “Spaying and Neutering: A Solution for Suffering” factsheet for more information.

Speak up if someone is planning to breed an animal. Urge people who desire the companionship of animals to adopt from animal shelters.

If you witness neglect, talk to the animal’s guardian, send an anonymous letter, or contact the humane society. Be persistent! (See PETA’s “Chained Dog” leaflet for more information.)

PETA prefers the term "companion animal" over "pet", favors the usage of "companionship" over "ownership", favors "adoption" over "buying", favors animal shelters over breeding mills.

In a word, No. PETA does not object to keeping animals in principle.

PETA very strongly supports adopting animals from shelters rather than breeders.

 

[Rat]

Why?

Information is always good. I don't buy meat for animal welfare that would be kind of stupid don't you think?

I buy it because its a smaller butcher and the owners are "real" butchers isntead of some guy running a blade in the back of a supermarket where thousands of pounds of dead animals are yanked from the shelves each week and thrown out.

I don't like mass consumer types of stores and like to think that if the animal did die at least it didn't die to be thrown in the garbage.

So buy Waitrose's free range (or your local equivalent) or something. The butcher is neither here nor there in most cases, compared to the slaughterhouse, and in terms of volume, a halal or kosher slaughterhouse is comparable anyway to any other type.

The method of killing is the difference between them, and since the law prescribes ways that are specifically aimed at the relatively ethical treatment of the animal, and shechita and dhabihah are granted exceptions from those laws, I don't see them as good things.

I'm fairly sure that if I say "Rolfe" three times while looking in a mirror, we'd get some more information on this.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

...dude, posting pics of a buck you shot on a "vegans = awesome" thread is the best thing I've seen in a while.

You, my friend, have just won the internet for 2011. All subsequent jokes will be counted in the joke-tally for 2012.

Personally I see it as the peak of reverse trolling that people seem to be all too happy to post in this thread. Which is especially funny since people have pointed out repeatedly that the author is never going to read any of this. So people are basically getting off on teabagging a mannequin.

Bravo.

 

[truethat]

So buy Waitrose's free range (or your local equivalent) or something. The butcher is neither here nor there in most cases, compared to the slaughterhouse, and in terms of volume, a halal or kosher slaughterhouse is comparable anyway to any other type.

The method of killing is the difference between them, and since the law prescribes ways that are specifically aimed at the relatively ethical treatment of the animal, and shechita and dhabihah are granted exceptions from those laws, I don't see them as good things.

I'm fairly sure that if I say "Rolfe" three times while looking in a mirror, we'd get some more information on this.

I buy free range when I can and others but I prefer going to a professional butcher. My butcher is a husband and wife team that have worked as butchers for 30 plus years. They run a small shop and there isn't any of this "let's wrap it up in clean shiney packages to make ourselves feel better" its a butcher with a skinned lamb corpse hanging right there for you to see.

It prefer the smaller shops and I prefer to face the reality of the fact that I'm eating meat and killing an animal to do so than to look for meat that is sanitized and unguilted by pretending that if I buy the more expensive brand with the fancy wrapping that talks about it being free range or organic that suddenly I'm not really killing something to eat it.

 

[Johny2x4]

PETA is pretty up front about its policy on euthanasia:


This is an unfortunate reality of animal shelters, some animals are euthanized. Unfortunately, some shelters are not equipped to euthanize humanely. In this press release, they describe:



A number of years ago, I volunteered at just one of these shelters in Nebraska. It was winter, one of our dogs became very sick with parvo. To avoid infecting the other animals, the owner of the shelter suggested putting the dog outside with 6 inches of fresh snow on the ground. They said it would be fine. The dog sat outside for an hour, shivering uncontrollably, so I put a blanket around it. I complained to the owner, they wouldn't bring the dog indoors.

Five hours later, I decided to check on the dog before going home for the day. The dog was dead, curled up on a ball with a thick layer of ice around it resulting from snow which had melted and re-froze around the dog. The owners forgot they'd put the dog out in the first place.

I should called the cops, animal welfare office, something. I didn't. It was the worst thing I'd ever seen in my life, a memory that will never go away.

Had the facility been better equipped, the dog could have been euthanized painlessly. Poo poo all over PETA you want, but euthanasia services it provides are invaluable.


This is one of those pervasive myths that doesn't go away. See here:


PETA very strongly supports adopting animals from shelters rather than breeders.

Yeah...No offense but quoting from the official PETA sources is not going to convince me. That´s like quoting that NK is a great nation according to their official sources.

 

[citizenzen]

Personally I see it as the peak of reverse trolling that people seem to be all too happy to post in this thread. Which is especially funny since people have pointed out repeatedly that the author is never going to read any of this. So people are basically getting off on teabagging a mannequin.

Do cocktail parties come to a halt when the first guest leaves?

 

[truethat]

I am staunchly anti pet unless you have unlimited resources to take care of the animal. I can't tell you the number of poor white trash I see out there who can't take care of their children or pay their bills but have 2-3 dogs and a bunch of cats and bunnies etc.

We have a guinea pig. And he's treated like gold, but he's the entire exception. He's able to be kept in a cage, we let him out from time to time but he prefers the cage and loves being held.

Anyone who is poor and has a pet is an uncontrollable source of frustration for me. I think it is horribly cruel to the animal. If it were up to me animals would never be allowed to be bought as pet or adopted unless you got a license and had animal insurance of some sort.

I can't stand humans who use animals for personal comfort but fail to treat the animal with the kind of freedom and care it deserves. I don't think there are too many people lower on my disgust list.