Why vegans are simply better people

[Johny2x4]

Well, speaking from my part, if some comes at me being all condescended and stuff, they will get a condescending post in kind.

 

[Travis]

Here's the thing, I don't drink beer. I just don't.

But I don't start threads where I brag about not drinking beer while insulting those that do. If you think your self worth is all wrapped up in what you don't consume I will advise you to seek some counseling or at least get a better hobby. Or should we all just recognize how awesome we non-lead snorters are and sing a song around the campfire?

 

[stilicho]

Here's the thing, I don't drink beer. I just don't.

But I don't start threads where I brag about not drinking beer while insulting those that do. If you think your self worth is all wrapped up in what you don't consume I will advise you to seek some counseling or at least get a better hobby. Or should we all just recognize how awesome we non-lead snorters are and sing a song around the campfire?

What you've hit upon is really a modern form of Puritanism. The kind of statements found in the OP would have found a friendly home in Calvin's Geneva or any other number of theocratic communities.

Abstinence (sex, meat, beer, etc) is not in and of itself a virtue. In fact, abstinence is generally pretty easy compared to moderation.

Your abstinence, in particular, is a valuable social skill and I'd bet that your social group commonly invites you along to a night out with the boys since they'd know they have a safe and reliable ride home afterwards. A vegan has no such social advantage.

 

[MikeSun5]

That stuff earlier about cattle ranchers or butchers somehow equating to slave owners is preposterous. Even when only used to mock unashamed carnivores. I've seen that ridiculous "non-vegetarians = slave owners" morality argument a few times before and I never cease to be shocked at who uses it. It's barely acceptable for a kid trying to "shake things up" on their 7th grade soapbox assignment for debate class. Just silly.

I understand that making inflammatory and exaggerated statements can help draw attention to a cause, but SHEESH.

If animals are people, there's a neighbor's dog I need to have arrested for biting assaulting me... or.... if people are animals, I should only have to pay the same amount of taxes as my bovine brethren, right?
Gotta draw the line somewhere.

 

[Travis]

What you've hit upon is really a modern form of Puritanism. The kind of statements found in the OP would have found a friendly home in Calvin's Geneva or any other number of theocratic communities.

Abstinence (sex, meat, beer, etc) is not in and of itself a virtue. In fact, abstinence is generally pretty easy compared to moderation.

Your abstinence, in particular, is a valuable social skill and I'd bet that your social group commonly invites you along to a night out with the boys since they'd know they have a safe and reliable ride home afterwards. A vegan has no such social advantage.

Actually most of my friends also don't drink. But I wouldn't turn down an offer to drive someone home.

 

[Cain]

What you've hit upon is really a modern form of Puritanism. The kind of statements found in the OP would have found a friendly home in Calvin's Geneva or any other number of theocratic communities.

This is a false equivocation as applied to the majority of vegans.

If we take Jonathan Haidt's five foundations of morality:
1) Harm/Care
2) Fairness/Reciprocity
3) Authority/Respect
4) Ingroup Loyalty
5) Purity/Sanctity

What you'll find is that most vegans -- OP excluded -- are motivated more by the first set of values rather than than the last.

In terms of bragging about not doing something, you'll see it on these forums all the time, and worn as a badge of honor: I'm a skeptic: I don't believe in god. Big ups.

Like atheism, refusing to support animal exploitation should be the norm, not a point of pride. In any case, a vegan diet is the sort of thing that most impresses omnivores who think (or say) that we have monk-like self-discipline. A lot of vegans LOVE their diet. Others eat to live. A person who enjoys the taste of meat, lives around evangelists for carnivorism and so on, IS doing something rather admirable. Rock stars and basketball players who are faithful to their wives or girlfriends deserve more praise than poor, fat, ugly, socially maladjusted men.

You don't get points for philosophically opposing slavery in 21st century America.

 

[Meed]

Like atheism, refusing to support animal exploitation should be the norm, not a point of pride. In any case, a vegan diet is the sort of thing that most impresses omnivores who think (or say) that we have monk-like self-discipline. A lot of vegans LOVE their diet. Others eat to live. A person who enjoys the taste of meat, lives around evangelists for carnivorism and so on, IS doing something rather admirable. Rock stars and basketball players who are faithful to their wives or girlfriends deserve more praise than poor, fat, ugly, socially maladjusted men.

You don't get points for philosophically opposing slavery in 21st century America.

But how can vegans justify focusing such a massive amount of time and energy into not eating animals when they could be focusing all that effort into something that helps humans, like not engaging in human trafficking or not raping people?

 

[dafydd]

They do but it's tofu bacon.

Tofu bacon? Blasphemy!

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

But how can vegans justify focusing such a massive amount of time and energy into not eating animals when they could be focusing all that effort into something that helps humans, like not engaging in human trafficking or not raping people?

Well, how exactly can I help those causes? Buying legumes instead of chicken when I go to the store is quite simple. Trying to stop rape? Not so much.

Also, a person with vegan ethic usually starts out eating meat, and then goes on to stop. I do not think I start out supporting rape, nor do I know anyone who does.

As for the larger proselytising debate, I think vegan conversion efforts are quite reasonable for those motivated by animal welfare/rights/protection/lovelove. Meat eaters may want to emphasis that they are making a "personal choice", but to those vegans that isn't the point.

 

[sgtbaker]

Tofu bacon? Blasphemy!

It's hell, did you expect something different?

 

[RandFan]

Well, how exactly can I help those causes? Buying legumes instead of chicken when I go to the store is quite simple. Trying to stop rape? Not so much.

Also, a person with vegan ethic usually starts out eating meat, and then goes on to stop. I do not think I start out supporting rape, nor do I know anyone who does.

As for the larger proselytising debate, I think vegan conversion efforts are quite reasonable for those motivated by animal welfare/rights/protection/lovelove. Meat eaters may want to emphasis that they are making a "personal choice", but to those vegans that isn't the point.

At the end of the day I would not advice anyone how to act on their conscience. It is one of the few things that I find sacrosanct. I don't care how or why so long as it is legal and ethical. And I will add, when it comes to govt and the rich and powerful, personally, I'm willing to forgive civil disobedience.

You don't need my permission but as one who eats meat I say follow your own conscience. You have nothing to apologize for.

 

[citizenzen]

But how can vegans justify focusing such a massive amount of time and energy into not eating animals when they could be focusing all that effort into something that helps humans, like not engaging in human trafficking or not raping people?

Yes, Focusing such a "massive amount of energy" should be put to better use, like controlled fusion.

It's just choosing what we put into our mouths. Trust me. It's not that taxing.

But what I'm really interested in is the underlying concept you've put forth that somehow human's are a superior life-force ... that their suffering is more important than the suffering of other animals. I reject that notion. Humans are not more important than other beings. We just like to believe that we are.

 

[dafydd]

It's hell, did you expect something different?

A fair point. They probably give you muesli for breakfast. That tastes like the sweepings from the bottom of a birdcage.

 

[Cain]

But how can vegans justify focusing such a massive amount of time and energy into not eating animals when they could be focusing all that effort into something that helps humans, like not engaging in human trafficking or not raping people?

This is the kind of thing I read over and say, "I wish I wrote that." Then I see other comments confirming my superb taste.

 

[stilicho]

This is a false equivocation as applied to the majority of vegans.

If we take Jonathan Haidt's five foundations of morality:
1) Harm/Care
2) Fairness/Reciprocity
3) Authority/Respect
4) Ingroup Loyalty
5) Purity/Sanctity

What you'll find is that most vegans -- OP excluded -- are motivated more by the first set of values rather than than the last.

In terms of bragging about not doing something, you'll see it on these forums all the time, and worn as a badge of honor: I'm a skeptic: I don't believe in god. Big ups.

Like atheism, refusing to support animal exploitation should be the norm, not a point of pride. In any case, a vegan diet is the sort of thing that most impresses omnivores who think (or say) that we have monk-like self-discipline. A lot of vegans LOVE their diet. Others eat to live. A person who enjoys the taste of meat, lives around evangelists for carnivorism and so on, IS doing something rather admirable. Rock stars and basketball players who are faithful to their wives or girlfriends deserve more praise than poor, fat, ugly, socially maladjusted men.

You don't get points for philosophically opposing slavery in 21st century America.

I suspect you don't know many evangelistic atheists or vegans. There are also evangelistic non-smokers and non-drinkers. And evangelistic "whole body medicine" advocates.

I don't understand the line about rock stars, basketball players, and fat guys. Is this an ethnic or gender issue?

 

[stilicho]

Actually most of my friends also don't drink. But I wouldn't turn down an offer to drive someone home.

As a bonus, you never have to hear from your S.O. that "they aren't your friends; they're just your drinking buddies". Pretty much gives you free rein!

 

[stilicho]

....

Humans are not more important than other beings.

....

Certainly not as important as cyanobacteria.

 

[joolz]

But how can vegans justify focusing such a massive amount of time and energy into not eating animals when they could be focusing all that effort into something that helps humans, like not engaging in human trafficking or not raping people?

Does helping to relieve famine in the third world qualify as helping humans? That was one of the three reasons I became veggie, and the other two weren't 'health' or 'being holier than thou'. I believed, and still do, in 'live and let live', but when I discovered decades ago that we were importing tons of crops to feed our cattle from countries that could hardly feed themselves, I reached my tipping point and became veggie. Even where home grown crops are fed to cattle there is a vast amount of food given to cattle that could be used, much more cheaply, by humans. It's just not cost effective.

In the US, 157 million tons of cereals, legumes and vegetable protein – all suitable for human consumption – is fed to livestock to produce just 28 million tons of animal protein in the form of meat.​

More info here: http://www.viva.org.uk/guides/feedtheworld.htm

You are free to choose what you eat, it's a personal choice, but it is not correct to say that veganism/vegetarianism doesn't help other people. I find it sad that we are feeding good food to cattle when it could be used to alleviate poverty and starvation, but each individual is free to choose whether to act.

Oh, and despite being veggie I did find the snorting lines of bacon quip funny, we aren't all po-faced

 

[reverebison]

Yes, believe it or not, if you know the harm of all dairy, all simple carbs, all meat and all oils, the foods that are left, the foods we were evolved to eat, you can eat all you want, you can stuff yourself with them night and day, and you won't get fat.

That concept is hard for modern eaters to realize, but thats what I do, i eat non stop and i don't get fat. Same with the wife and kids, we were fat, now we eat all we want and we are not fat. And in case your going to come up with a comeback that we are miserable eating this way,,,,don't...cause you acquire a new taste that is very satisfying. I like my steamed mushrooms, bok choi, brown rice with Tamari Sauce every bit as you like your 18 oz steak, loaded baked potatoe, green beans and sour cream. Its just that I am not living with the athlerosclerosis and the heartburn.

Peace out

 

[reverebison]

Your BMI is 22. Why don't you do a calcium scan of your heart or some other test to measure how clogged your arteries are. Thats why meat and oil do you in. Do you have varicose veins in your legs or feet. Peripheral artery disease. We didn't evolve to handle this much oil and meat,,,,once a month...ok. every freakin day...thats shear stupidity.