Merged Kim Jong Il is dead / You must cry

[commandlinegamer]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16297811

Strange natural phenomena have been witnessed in North Korea since the death of the country's leader Kim Jong-il, the state news agency KCNA reports.

Ice cracked on a famous lake "so loud, it seemed to shake the Heavens and the Earth"

Funnily enough, it's been a bit milder here for the last couple of days.

and a mysterious glow was seen on a revered mountain top

Yes, guess they don't see much of the sun in those deep valleys. Isn't there a place in Italy (or is it the Rockies) so encompassed by hills they installed mirrors to get more light?

 

[Graham2001]

And meanwhile the extreme end of the political left will continue to confuse a feudal monarchy with 'real democracy' (As practiced in Syria, Iran and formerly Libya).

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I'm old enough to remember the last time.

 

[geni]

Nauseating to see the new leader's fat round overfed face when we know people are literally starving to death in the country side.

Actualy we don't know. We have very few worthwhile up to date sources. Those we do have suggest that the creeping capitalism from china means that although the state run food distribution system has collapsed the general population now has ways of getting by.

 

[Pardalis]

Actualy we don't know. We have very few worthwhile up to date sources. Those we do have suggest that the creeping capitalism from china means that although the state run food distribution system has collapsed the general population now has ways of getting by.

I don't know what sources those are, but most news outlets talk about famine in the country.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...es-famine-Tell-the-world-we-are-starving.html

 

[geni]

I don't know what sources those are, but most news outlets talk about famine in the country.

Because famine sells. It also the easiest thing to find people to talk about (if we ignore the anoying western business people http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16254565 ). By comparision the creeping capitalism is messy (somewhat literally after the currency reform) and involves people who have no interest in talking to the media because they are doing reasonably nicely thankyou.

The version of north korea the western media tends to sell you is while far more grounded in fact that the version of north korea that the Kim regime tries to sell the people of north korea is still jazzed up a fair bit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...es-famine-Tell-the-world-we-are-starving.html

Pinpricks. Data from people who don't move around very much. Talk to the chinese traders. Except you can't since they tend to be very secretive.

Actualy the person staving to death at a station does have something of a precedent. It's where people go to beg and while farmers have ways and means of getting by those who live in urban areas where stations tend to be don't have the same options.

 

[Eddie Dane]

There was a guy on the radio who does business in NK.

Apparently they make a lot of animation film for south European television.
There also seems to be an IT industry. You can have websites built there and other pretty mundane IT stuff.

Interviewer: So what types of software do you have developed there?
Business guy: Oh, they are really good with security stuff. Fingerprint recognition and such. And they excel at surveillance software, we buy that quite a lot for Western clients.

 

[Pardalis]

Because famine sells.

Easy answer. Journalists and their employers also have a work ethic, and they mostly report the truth.

By comparision the creeping capitalism is messy (somewhat literally after the currency reform) and involves people who have no interest in talking to the media because they are doing reasonably nicely thankyou.

So your evidence is people who don't talk to the media, so how do you know about them?

Pinpricks. Data from people who don't move around very much. Talk to the chinese traders. Except you can't since they tend to be very secretive.

Again, your evidence is based on non-reports by people who don't talk. Not much evidence is it?

Do you expect me to just "trust" you?

 

[Craig B]

And meanwhile the extreme end of the political left will continue to confuse a feudal monarchy with 'real democracy' (As practiced in Syria, Iran and formerly Libya).

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I'm old enough to remember the last time.

I find it hard to believe that a sane commentator of any political persuasion would describe N Korea as a "real democracy", although I do recall some half crazed scribbler referring to Kim Il Sung as a "socialist" in some ultra left news sheet, on the occasion of his decease.

Or rather, appointment to the post of Eternal President. One commentator - can anyone remind me who? - has amusingly referred to NK not as a democracy, but as a "necrocracy" or "mausolocracy".

I agree that if you have to be ruled by a tyrant, it's preferable that he or she should be a dead tyrant.

 

[timhau]

Farewell, Dear Leader.

... and long live Dear Larder.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

.
Really?
When we went through East Berlin in 1952, it looked like WWII had ended yesterday, while the American, British and French sectors were clean and modern.
The Wall and all those border fences with the guards that shot to kill weren't there to keep desperate Westerners -out-!

I'm not saying they were WELL off or happy, but east germany 1989 was in way better shape in any way than N-korea now.
In East germany at least most people were willing to protest and knew what things were like in the west, nor did they worship a god-emperor.

 

[jadey]

I find it hard to believe that a sane commentator of any political persuasion would describe N Korea as a "real democracy", although I do recall some half crazed scribbler referring to Kim Il Sung as a "socialist" in some ultra left news sheet, on the occasion of his decease.

Or rather, appointment to the post of Eternal President. One commentator - can anyone remind me who? - has amusingly referred to NK not as a democracy, but as a "necrocracy" or "mausolocracy".

I agree that if you have to be ruled by a tyrant, it's preferable that he or she should be a dead tyrant.

I think that was a quip from Christopher Hitchens, but am not certain.

 

[CORed]

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/5G6op.jpg[/qimg]

http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/index?id=7369649

Funny they don't mention the 2,564 Mulligans.

 

[Craig B]

I think that was a quip from Christopher Hitchens, but am not certain.

if it was from Hitchens I certainly hope it was indeed a quip! To support the militarist son of a previous Great Leader is something you should only do once - if at all!

 

[geni]

Easy answer. Journalists and their employers also have a work ethic, and they mostly report the truth.

Leveson Inquiry says otherwise. The problem is honest reporting on north korea would be roughly as follows:

The north Korean government has made up X. Various anti north Korean groups claim Y. Here's a few satellite pics.

If you are prepared to take a slightly longer term view:
Here's what some refugees claim and here's what a guy who claims to have been Kim Jong-ilsushi chef claims.

So your evidence is people who don't talk to the media, so how do you know about them?

Mostly passing mentions. Nothing to envy is a few years out of date but the preditable trends are evident. Its not in the countryside where you see the famine hit first. It is the non Pyongyang cities.

Again, your evidence is based on non-reports by people who don't talk. Not much evidence is it?

Do you expect me to just "trust" you?

You do know there is a reasonable amount of data with regards to how farmers react to state entities and similar trying to take all their food? They start hiding it. And this is an absolute constant from shogunate era Japan to leninist Russia to pre 20th century isles of scilly to WW2 britian.

North korean faming production isn't actualy zero so we are not looking at an ethiopia type situation. As a result reports of famine in the countryside but not Chongjin (which tends to do badly because the authorities don't like it very much) are suspect.

 

[Graham2001]

I find it hard to believe that a sane commentator of any political persuasion would describe N Korea as a "real democracy", although I do recall some half crazed scribbler referring to Kim Il Sung as a "socialist" in some ultra left news sheet, on the occasion of his decease.

Or rather, appointment to the post of Eternal President. One commentator - can anyone remind me who? - has amusingly referred to NK not as a democracy, but as a "necrocracy" or "mausolocracy".

I agree that if you have to be ruled by a tyrant, it's preferable that he or she should be a dead tyrant.

I actually got that list from a conspiracy magazine I read in the 1990's (Sadly no longer in my posession). The full list of 'real democracies' had five countries:

North Korea
Libya
Syria
Iran
Cuba (?)

My initial reaction to it was "Do they really believe that...?"

 

[BTMO]

Ding dong, etc.

This can go either way for North Korea. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping the new Kim will be a good man and want to change things for the better for his nation.

What's the chances that three generations in a row will give the country a total narcissistic sociopath as demi-god?

The children of the congenitally rich are often self absorbed *********. When the parent was an absolute dicatator with no limits on his every whim whatsoever, it is safe to assume that North Korea is not going to change at all.

Changing the head without fixing the problems in the system won't have any real impact. North Koreans will be starving and freezing this time next year just like they are today. While the "royal" family live in absolute luxury, never knowing want.

North Korea needs an internal revolution, nothing less.

 

[geni]

Changing the head without fixing the problems in the system won't have any real impact. North Koreans will be starving and freezing this time next year just like they are today. While the "royal" family live in absolute luxury, never knowing want.

They might not actualy. North korean products aren't know for their quality. With foreign currency limited and the need to spend money to keep the millitary happy there will be some limits on resources. Additionally there is the issue of being unable to visit Disneyland without causing a diplomatic incerdent.

 

[Gazpacho]

So long, dear General, and thanks for all the fish.

Leader Kim Jong Il worked heart and soul to supply the people with fresh fishes the year round while giving tireless field guidance to fisheries bases on the eastern and western areas, commercial service centers and related units during his lifetime.

Earlier this year he made sure that pollacks and herrings were supplied to the Pyongyang citizens. At sandfish season this November he instructed officials to swiftly catch sandfish and send them to the people.

On the evening of Dec. 16, just a day before his demise, he took a step for the fish supply.

Salespersons and citizens burst out sobbing at fish shops in the capital city Friday.

Indeed, at every stage of production the beloved General was there to ensure that the fish were properly looked after at.

 

[jadey]

if it was from Hitchens I certainly hope it was indeed a quip! To support the militarist son of a previous Great Leader is something you should only do once - if at all!

I wasn't particularly clear ... I was originally referring to your second paragraph. not your first.

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/kim-il-sung

“Not since North Korean media declared Kim Jong-il to be the reincarnation of Kim Il Sung has there been such a blatant attempt to create a necrocracy, or perhaps mausolocracy, in which a living claimant assumes the fleshly mantle of the departed.”
― Christopher Hitchens

 

[angrysoba]

Do you think it would be worrisome to be a tourist in NK right now? The thought of having to cry on demand for Dear Leader or disappear is a little scary, or are they more relaxed with visitors? I don't think I could ever visit that place, because I wouldn't be able to hide my contempt for that now-dead bag of piss.

I think at this time of year there are no visitors. Except maybe a few arms dealers and Chinese Communist Party Members.