100 million deaths due to capitalism in the 20th century.

[bikerdruid]

Communism was a reaction to capitalism. If not for capitalism, communism would not exist. Ergo, every death that can be attributed to communism is ultimately capitalism's fault.

Let's just blame capitalism for everything bad that ever happened anywhere and move on.

good idea.
everyone know that the love of money is the root of all evil.

 

[respect]

When suggesting the use of french fries, cheese curds and gravy for use as a biological weapon, most sane, normal and reasonable people would assume that an attempt at humor is being made.

Correct, but you should keep in mind that no sane, normal and reasonable person advocates communism.

 

[respect]

please direct me to the posts where forum members have ever questioned the number of deaths caused by communism,
as commonly bandied about by members here.

Even if generally accepted estimates are a little high (and many argue that they are too low), would you think that communism being responsible for say 90 million deaths in the twentieth century would be acceptable? Or is it that you think everyone is just making up the mass starvations, political executions etc?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

good idea.
everyone know that the love of money is the root of all evil.

Which is why communism is the most evil system of all.

Under the American system, the state doesn't care who has how much money. The protection of the rights of the people are the states highest priority and the chips and dollars are allowed to fall where they may.

Under communism money is everything. Who has how much is the states first concern. And whatever evil is required on the part of the state to maintain an arbitrarily determined balance is considered justified.

Communism is the most materialistically obsessed system of government ever imposed. All that communism cares about is money, human life, thought and feeling are purely secondary.

 

[respect]

good idea.
everyone know that the love of money is the root of all evil.

Everyone doesn't know that and only idiots think it. Plenty of awful crimes are committed with no financial motives in mind.

 

[bikerdruid]

That's surprising given your utter contempt for anyone who thinks or feels differently from you.

absolutely wrong.
i have contempt for some ideaologies.
please show where i have ever shown contempt for an individual on this forum.

good you are back.
now....either prove your slanderous claim, or retract it.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Hypocrite.

Your posts contain some of the most hate-filled content I have seen on this forum

You need to apologize to these men and women and their families (plus more than 70 others) for your own vicious, back-stabbing lies before you get to play the victim card:

 

[bikerdruid]

Hypocrite.

Your posts contain some of the most hate-filled content I have seen on this forum

prove it, or retract it.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

prove it, or retract it.

Ok, let me make this easy for you, I'll get you started:

I apologize to the men and women of the Princess Patricias Canadian Light Infantry, the Lord Strathconas Horse Armored Regiment,...​

You can figure out the rest on your own. A little googling will find you listing of all the Canadian Armed Forces units that have suffered casualties in the field while you were cowardly and anonymously stabbing them in the back over the web.

 

[Virus]

absolutely wrong.
i have contempt for some ideaologies.
please show where i have ever shown contempt for an individual on this forum.

In the Occupy Wall Street thread you said "unfortunately there will be violence" for people who don't back socialist revolution.

 

[portlandatheist]

Hypocrite.

Your posts contain some of the most hate-filled content I have seen on this forum

You need to apologize to these men and women and their families (plus more than 70 others) for your own vicious, back-stabbing lies before you get to play the victim card:

[qimg]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/Kilstryke/ourdearestblood.jpg[/qimg]

I thought you may appreciate this NPR radio interview and we can all thank the Canadians who gave so much and made this possible:

ALEX THIER: Afghanistan, in 2001, had an estimated life expectancy of about 45 years. And today, that has gone up to between 62 and 64 years, which is probably the greatest single increase anywhere on the planet in the last decade.

http://www.npr.org/2011/12/22/144111949/usaid-improves-medical-care-in-afghanistan
It goes on:

For example, in Afghanistan, children had a 25 percent chance of dying before their fifth birthday in 2001. And today, that figure has gone down to 10 percent. Now, 10 percent is still far too high, but probably hundreds of thousands of Afghan lives have been saved that wouldn't otherwise be here under a Taliban regime.

Their lives have not been lost in vain. Canada is on the right side of history.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I thought you may appreciate this NPR radio interview and we can all thank the Canadians who gave so much and made this possible:

http://www.npr.org/2011/12/22/144111949/usaid-improves-medical-care-in-afghanistan
It goes on:


Their lives have not been lost in vain. Canada is on the right side of history.

"Heroism feels and never reasons and therefore is always right"
-Ralph Waldo Emerson


According to Bikerdruids treasonous rants, Canadian servicemen have participated in a mass murder as big as the one Lenin carried out (Stalins blood soaked rampage was so huge, most people forget his predecessor was responsible for more than 4 million civilian deaths).

 

[portlandatheist]

This whole thread is an utterly lame attempt at tu quoque. Even if it were true that capitalism had killed millions of people, this would not justify the slaughtering of innocents (or cracking a few eggs as bikerdruid likes to say) for the purpose of communism. Two wrongs are simply two wrongs and don't make a right.

 

[Pup]

Okay, so communism causes some deaths.

Capitalism causes some deaths.

What's the control group we're comparing these deaths to? What system should we live under, to eliminate all these "extra" deaths that both capitalism and communism are causing?

 

[HoverBoarder]

people here love to talk about the communist death toll.
here is the elephant in the room:

the black book of capitalism.

An appendix provides an incomplete list of 20th century death tolls which Perrault attributes to the capitalist system. The list, which includes both combatant and noncombatant dead, includes an estimated 58 million dead from the First and Second World Wars, plus death tolls from various colonial wars, anticommunist wars and repressions, ethnic conflicts, and some victims of famines or malnutrition,which brings the incomplete list to a combined total of about 100 million deaths attributed to capitalism in the 20th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Livre_Noir_du_Capitalisme

Capitalism is by no means a perfect system, partially because it is a man-made system, but it is not honest or logical to pin just about any of the deaths on your list to being attributed to capitalism.

There are some deaths from malnutrition and starvation that can be fairly attributed to capitalism, although far fewer than you would have under a communist system. However, including WWI or WWII in your "tally" as other posters have noted is not credible at all.

You may personally want more people to live under communist rule, but there is a long history of people throwing off their communist oppressors after being more persecuted, having larger numbers of people killed for political purposes, and having more people needless starve under communist systems than their Capitalist counterparts.

Capitalism may not be a perfect system, but millions of people have already tried communism, and after millions of people needlessly died because of the major flaws inherent in the function of communism, the vast majority of the world has chosen to switch to the more preferable system of capitalism.

Capitalism most definitely has its problems of inequality, inefficiencies, waste, and pollution, but it is very unlikely that any country will ever switch to communism again. Enough people have been down that road and have already deemed it to be a failed system. The decision to move on from communism to better systems has already been made by the majority of the world, and no stretching of the facts or statistics will cause them to change their minds on that.

Capitalism could very well be replaced by a better and more efficient economic system, but that new economic system will almost certainly not be communism because the vast majority of the world has already determined that communism is not a better system, and communism is certainly not more efficient.

It is better to start looking towards the future than to keep fudging the reality of the past.

 

[portlandatheist]

Okay, so communism causes some deaths.

Capitalism causes some deaths.

What's the control group we're comparing these deaths to? What system should we live under, to eliminate all these "extra" deaths that both capitalism and communism are causing?

Unfortunately, just as in economics, a control group is not feasible. It would be nice to have one for the purpose of science just like it would be nice to have control groups for various different public policies but all we can do is look at what has been tried.
The biggest problem in this thread is the issue of measurement. The OP is so arbitrary and meaningless it would be like me saying that the communist neanderthals became extinct at the hands of capitalist Cro-Magnon.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Another drive by trolling to sucker them in..........

Another drive by trolling to sucker to find them .........
Another drive by trolling to take them all
And in the dumbness bind them
In the land of JREF
Where the skeptics lie.

 

[Robrob]

In the history of the world, there has never been a political, social, religious system that has not had evil committed in its name. The older/larger the system, the worse the evil.

Anyone trying to ignore this fact (or worse, to pretend their favorite system never does this while the system they hate always does this) it a hypocrite.

 

[Pardalis]

When suggesting the use of french fries, cheese curds and gravy for use as a biological weapon, most sane, normal and reasonable people would assume that an attempt at humor is being made.

It's also pretty funny.

 

[Virus]

In the history of the world, there has never been a political, social, religious system that has not had evil committed in its name. The older/larger the system, the worse the evil.

Anyone trying to ignore this fact (or worse, to pretend their favorite system never does this while the system they hate always does this) it a hypocrite.

We're just saying that the Communists killed 100,000,000 people last century which makes them the greatest mass-murderers in human history.