100 million deaths due to capitalism in the 20th century.

[citizenzen]

Except, there's a wide degree of difference between an overzealous criminal justice system and a state where political prisoners are interned en masse.

Uh-huh.

How do those in prison and interred see that difference?

I imagine (never having been in a gulag or prison) that they feel a similar lack of liberty.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Uh-huh.

How do those in prison and interred see that difference?

I imagine (never having been in a gulag or prison) that they feel a similar lack of liberty.

Many in the Gulags were imprisoned for no real reason (joking about Stalin etc.), whereas most, if not all inmates, in US Prisons did something (breaking parole terms, possess drugs etc.)

 

[Pardalis]

And the incarceration ratio in US prisons has nothing inherently to do with capitalism, there's no economic benefit from it. It actually costs the states alot of money to keep those prisons running.

 

[citizenzen]

And the incarceration ratio in US prisons has nothing inherently to do with capitalism, there's no economic benefit from it. It actually costs the states alot of money to keep those prisons running.

It could be argued that gulags have nothing inherently to do with communism and everything to do with totalitarianism. Gulags cost the state a lot of money too. How do they benefit a communistic economy?

 

[bikerdruid]

And the incarceration ratio in US prisons has nothing inherently to do with capitalism, there's no economic benefit from it. It actually costs the states alot of money to keep those prisons running.

prisons in the states are being privatized.
full prisons are better for business.

harper will be doing the same here, hence several new prisons and his omnibus crime bill.

 

[bikerdruid]

Many in the Gulags were imprisoned for no real reason (joking about Stalin etc.), whereas most, if not all inmates, in US Prisons did something (breaking parole terms, possess drugs etc.)

how many millions are in american prisons on pot related charges?
marijuana prohibition had everything to do with capitalism.
(willian randolph hearst made billions on it.)

 

[NWO Sentryman]

It could be argued that gulags have nothing inherently to do with communism and everything to do with totalitarianism. Gulags cost the state a lot of money too. How do they benefit a communistic economy?

The gulags were largely used to "oubliette" people who criticised ideological policies, even in Lenin's time, and particularly within the party as well. They had an ideological slant as well as a political one.

@bikerdruid

Just because Randolph Hearst lobbied to have Cannibis banned doesn't mean it was all for capitalism.

 

[respect]

people here love to talk about the communist death toll.
here is the elephant in the room:

the black book of capitalism.

An appendix provides an incomplete list of 20th century death tolls which Perrault attributes to the capitalist system. The list, which includes both combatant and noncombatant dead, includes an estimated 58 million dead from the First and Second World Wars, plus death tolls from various colonial wars, anticommunist wars and repressions, ethnic conflicts, and some victims of famines or malnutrition,which brings the incomplete list to a combined total of about 100 million deaths attributed to capitalism in the 20th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Livre_Noir_du_Capitalisme

Wow, this is pathetic even by the low standards you have set for yourself. Do you think the World Wars should be renamed the Great Capitalist Wars?

 

[respect]

It could be argued that gulags have nothing inherently to do with communism and everything to do with totalitarianism. Gulags cost the state a lot of money too. How do they benefit a communistic economy?

Communism cannot stay in place without totalitarianism. The USSR constantly punished dissidents to protect communist power.

 

[Pardalis]

It could be argued that gulags have nothing inherently to do with communism and everything to do with totalitarianism. Gulags cost the state a lot of money too. How do they benefit a communistic economy?

It directly stems from the concentration of power of the State, anyone who dissented was considered an enemy of the State and sent to a camp.

And also, a big camp population offered a huge amount of free workforce for the State to use as forced labor for the different projects they had.

 

[bigjelmapro]

And the incarceration ratio in US prisons has nothing inherently to do with capitalism, there's no economic benefit from it. It actually costs the states alot of money to keep those prisons running.

BD linked a wiki article about incarceration in the US, but refused to read, along with citizenzen, the section under 'Causes'.

 

[respect]

If people didn't get adequate healthcare in a communist country, we'd blame communism.

If a communist country invaded another country, we'd blame communism.

But because we're soaking in capitalism, we see the other causes to these issues and avoid what an outsider may see as a major factor.

The OP has presented an interesting perspective ... albeit one that makes us uncomfortable to consider.

Such a blatant misrepresentation of history will only make a fool uncomfortable to consider. It will be dismissed as moronic propaganda by all others.

 

[citizenzen]

Such a blatant misrepresentation of history will only make a fool uncomfortable to consider.

What history have I represented?

Please specify.

 

[respect]

What history have I represented?

Please specify.

That is a reference to the OP, there is nothing in it that should make "us uncomfortable to consider." It is moronic propaganda.

 

[citizenzen]

That is a reference to the OP, there is nothing in it that should make "us uncomfortable to consider." It is moronic propaganda.

Of course it is. Why did I even entertain the notion that there was a subject to be discussed?

Capitalism ... good.

Capitalism ... GOOD!!!

MMM

Communism ... bad.

Communism ... BAD!!!

MMM

Please don't send me to the gulag.

 

[respect]

Of course it is. Why did I even entertain the notion that there was a subject to be discussed?

Capitalism ... good.

Capitalism ... GOOD!!!

MMM

Communism ... bad.

Communism ... BAD!!!

MMM

Please don't send me to the gulag.

Do you really think that the claim that capitalism is responsible for all of the deaths in the World Wars merits serious consideration?

If so, I suggest you take some history classes.

 

[citizenzen]

Do you really think that the claim that capitalism is responsible for all of the deaths in the World Wars merits serious consideration?

If so, I suggest you take some history classes.

I was more interested in looking at it from the side that it doesn't seem to promote peace. A subtle difference. You boys don't seem to do subtle very well.

That's my bad. I thought imagined JREF was more intellectually curious than it is. Now I know better.

 

[Humes fork]

Why don't we blame the Black Death on capitalism? It spread to Europe and the Middle East through traders and merchants. Trade is something greedy capitalists do.

 

[citizenzen]

Trade is something greedy capitalists do.

Yes, but trade is also something fiendish commies do too.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

people here love to talk about the communist death toll.
here is the elephant in the room:

the black book of capitalism.

An appendix provides an incomplete list of 20th century death tolls which Perrault attributes to the capitalist system. The list, which includes both combatant and noncombatant dead, includes an estimated 58 million dead from the First and Second World Wars, plus death tolls from various colonial wars, anticommunist wars and repressions, ethnic conflicts, and some victims of famines or malnutrition,which brings the incomplete list to a combined total of about 100 million deaths attributed to capitalism in the 20th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Livre_Noir_du_Capitalisme

Given that there are close to 7 billion people on the planet, that's really not that many. Come on capitalists, we can do better!!!