100 million deaths due to capitalism in the 20th century.

[bikerdruid]

people here love to talk about the communist death toll.
here is the elephant in the room:

the black book of capitalism.

An appendix provides an incomplete list of 20th century death tolls which Perrault attributes to the capitalist system. The list, which includes both combatant and noncombatant dead, includes an estimated 58 million dead from the First and Second World Wars, plus death tolls from various colonial wars, anticommunist wars and repressions, ethnic conflicts, and some victims of famines or malnutrition,which brings the incomplete list to a combined total of about 100 million deaths attributed to capitalism in the 20th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Livre_Noir_du_Capitalisme

 

[NoahFence]

ok

 

[Arcade22]

Oh i get it: whenever someone dies in a capitalist country, for whatever reason, it's because of capitalism. Brilliant.

 

[timhau]

Was anyone surprised that after The Black Book of Communism, the incurables attempt a tu quoque?

 

[Pardalis]

Rubbish. It even includes the death that occured during WW1 and WW2.

 

[citizenzen]

Oh i get it: whenever someone dies in a capitalist country, for whatever reason, it's because of capitalism. Brilliant.

If people didn't get adequate healthcare in a communist country, we'd blame communism.

If a communist country invaded another country, we'd blame communism.

But because we're soaking in capitalism, we see the other causes to these issues and avoid what an outsider may see as a major factor.

The OP has presented an interesting perspective ... albeit one that makes us uncomfortable to consider.

 

[jiggeryqua]

Was anyone surprised that after The Black Book of Communism, the incurables attempt a tu quoque?

As everyone knows, getting your accusation in first grants immunity to criticism.

 

[lionking]

The OP has presented an interesting perspective ... albeit one that makes us uncomfortable to consider.

It doesn't make me uncomfortable, it makes me laugh. All the deaths in WWI and WWII due to capitalism? This is a rational point of view?

 

[timhau]

If people didn't get adequate healthcare in a communist country, we'd blame communism.

If a communist country invaded another country, we'd blame communism.

It's been a while since I read The Black Book of Communism and right now I'm too lazy to dig it up, but the way I remember it, they didn't have to count those. Executions, genocide, gulag deaths, and intentionally manufactured were enough.

 

[Pardalis]

If people didn't get adequate healthcare in a communist country, we'd blame communism.

If a communist country invaded another country, we'd blame communism.

No, the casualties depicted in the Black Book of Communism are directly a result of the policies, unlike Biker's book. Both World Wars for examples weren't wars about capitalism, or derived from it.

 

[mikeyx]

people here love to talk about the communist death toll.
here is the elephant in the room:

the black book of capitalism.

An appendix provides an incomplete list of 20th century death tolls which Perrault attributes to the capitalist system. The list, which includes both combatant and noncombatant dead, includes an estimated 58 million dead from the First and Second World Wars, plus death tolls from various colonial wars, anticommunist wars and repressions, ethnic conflicts, and some victims of famines or malnutrition,which brings the incomplete list to a combined total of about 100 million deaths attributed to capitalism in the 20th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Livre_Noir_du_Capitalisme

MEH...

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Why stop at 100,000,000. Why not attribute every death, past or future, to capitalism.

It would make as much sense.

 

[Pardalis]

Biker once started a thread claiming the recent Afghan war caused 4.9 million deaths...

Facts and numbers seem to be a problem for him.

 

[trustbutverify]

If people didn't get adequate healthcare in a communist country, we'd blame communism.

If a communist country invaded another country, we'd blame communism.

But because we're soaking in capitalism, we see the other causes to these issues and avoid what an outsider may see as a major factor.

The OP has presented an interesting perspective ... albeit one that makes us uncomfortable to consider.

It makes you uncomfortable?

 

[trustbutverify]

Does this include all deaths due to ladder related accidents in market economies?

 

[trustbutverify]

people here love to talk about the communist death toll.
here is the elephant in the room:

the black book of capitalism.

An appendix provides an incomplete list of 20th century death tolls which Perrault attributes to the capitalist system. The list, which includes both combatant and noncombatant dead, includes an estimated 58 million dead from the First and Second World Wars, plus death tolls from various colonial wars, anticommunist wars and repressions, ethnic conflicts, and some victims of famines or malnutrition,which brings the incomplete list to a combined total of about 100 million deaths attributed to capitalism in the 20th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Livre_Noir_du_Capitalisme

You don't see any possible problems with this statistical approach? Problems concerning consistency?

 

[trustbutverify]

Biker once started a thread claiming the recent Afghan war caused 4.9 million deaths...

Facts and numbers seem to be a problem for him.

Oh my.

 

[mhaze]

people here love to talk about the communist death toll.
here is the elephant in the room:

the black book of capitalism.

An appendix provides an incomplete list of 20th century death tolls which Perrault attributes to the capitalist system. The list, which includes both combatant and noncombatant dead, includes an estimated 58 million dead from the First and Second World Wars, plus death tolls from various colonial wars, anticommunist wars and repressions, ethnic conflicts, and some victims of famines or malnutrition,which brings the incomplete list to a combined total of about 100 million deaths attributed to capitalism in the 20th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Livre_Noir_du_Capitalisme

My friends living under communist regimes today would ... well, they'd sort of burst out laughing at this.

Clever, though.

 

[Wolfman]

bikerdruid seems to have significant problems with the concept of "causation". For example, WW II wasn't caused by Capitalism; it was caused by Fascism in Germany and Japan. Please note that the USSR, as a Communist country, lost more people to the Germans than Western (capitalist) nations did; likewise, more Chinese (Communists again) were killed or suffered under the Japanese than any Western nation.

That's just the beginning...and it gets worse from there.

This does, however, serve as an absolutely brilliant example of how the non-critical thinker will seek to engage in debate; through exaggeration, misrepresentation, and distortion of facts. Not seeking so much honest examination of the evidence, as they have already decided what the 'truth' is, and will ignore or distort any evidence that contradicts their claim.


ETA: I'm not seeking to argue that Capitalism is always a great thing; the more powerful nations have used Capitalism as an excuse to exploit and abuse nations weaker than them, stripping them of their resources, and supporting despotic regimes as long as those regimes provide what they want. It is a far-from-glorious history. But such arguments can be made without resorting to the kind of irrational nonsense spouted by people like Perrault.

 

[citizenzen]

This does, however, serve as an absolutely brilliant example of how the non-critical thinker will seek to engage in debate; through exaggeration, misrepresentation, and distortion of facts. Not seeking so much honest examination of the evidence, as they have already decided what the 'truth' is, and will ignore or distort any evidence that contradicts their claim.

I'm not disagreeing with you. You can't prove that capitalism was the cause of these deaths. But I do think the most interesting aspect of the concept is that capitalism was by and large the economic environment where these deaths took place. Its interesting (IMO) that capitalism doesn't appear to stabilize or mitigate violence and unrest. One could easily say that isn't its role. However, the amount of war and civil unrest that have occurred under it indicate that it doesn't in itself bring peace and stability.

I actually find the topic quite interesting. Thanks, bikerdruid, for bringing it to the table.