Morality of using a medium for grieving people

[Zeuzzz]

Had long talk the other day someone I know whose son died recently at the age of 20. I was a very close friend with him. And she started to give details of what had happened when one of her relatives had gone to a medium recently.

She gave very detailed examples of names they mentioned that were all in the family, about his funeral, what he enjoyed doing, his appearance, and other quite specific stuff about what he was saying to people from beyond the grave about not to be sad, etc. Typical stuff.

But what really got me was how this reading had effected her. It had suddenly made a person that was usually extremely sceptical in things like this an adamant believer that this is true, probably as she is in such a vulnerable place this sort of 'spiritual' event was something that might be able to help her cope with the event better. The idea that he is still alive somehow and able to contact people from beyond the grave seemed to give her a lot of comfort.

Of course this was not the right situation for me to be sceptical to her about it, so a good 2-3 hour chat commenced with me being considerate and understanding of various things like 'spirits', the significance of feathers falling from the sky from angels, life after death, ghosts, all sorts.

And I left quite confused about what I thought about it all. I used to think that mediums like this were just taking advantage of vulnerable people, but she has really gotten a hell of a lot of emotional comfort from this. She is considering going for a reading herself. I know its all likely baloney using various suggestion and using peoples reactions to get the right answers; but is this practise immoral or altruistic?

You can look as it as altruistic as this medium gave them advice that has made people in an extremely bad place a lot more positive about many things. But also it could be immoral as it's plainly mostly made up pseudo-therapy, using wishful thinking and co-incidence as fact.

Thoughts?

 

[Resume]

Had long talk the other day someone I know whos son died recently at the age of 20. I was a very close friend with him. And she started to give details of what had happened when one of her relatives had gone to a medium recently.

She gave very detailed examples of names they mentioned that were all in the family, about his funeral, what he enjoyed doing, his appearance, and other quite specific stuff about what he was saying to people from beyond the grave about not to be sad, etc. Typical stuff.

But what really got me was how this reading had effected her. It had suddenly made a person that was usually extremely skeptical in things like this an adament believer that this is true, probably as she is in such a vulnerable place this sort of 'spiritual' event was something that might be able to help her cope with the event better. The idea that he is still alive somehow and able to contact people from beyond the grave seemed to give her a lot of comfort.

Of course this was not the right situation for me to be skeptical to her about it, so a good 2-3 hour chat commenced with me being considerate and understanding of various things like 'spirits', the sigificance of feathers falling from the sky from angels, life after death, ghosts, all sorts.

And I left quite confused about what I thought about it all. I used to think that mediums like this were just taking advantage of vulnerable people, but she has really gotten a hell of a lot of emotional comfort from this. She is considering going for a reading herself. I know its all likely baloney using various suggestion and using peoples reactions to get the right answerts; but is this practise immoral or altruistic?

You can look as it as altruistic as this medium gave them advice that has made people in an extremely bad place a lot more positive about many things. But also it could be immorral as it's plainly mostly made up pseudo-therapy, using wishful thinking and co-incidence as fact.

Thoughts?

My first thought is vulture. What else is there to think of those that take advantage of the grieving by making up **** about loved ones lost?

 

[RobDegraves]

My thoughts on people who do that, ie pretend to contact their departed loved ones, are largely the kind that I would not write on a forum ... for fear of being accused of issuing threats.

Needless to say that I consider that sort of thing immoral, unethical and just plain wrong in the extreme.

Same goes for tv evangelist and their ilk. These are people who are making fortunes off of people who are grieving and looking for any kind of support. It's one thing to offer moral support, or even religious support for those people who are religious, but to offer a paid service that is based on exploiting people at their weakest moment... that is pretty darn low. There are few occupation that I would rank lower, possibly none.

 

[fuelair]

I am with Rob and Res on this. And hope all "mediums" and "healers" get all that they deserve - and would be delighted to help them get it. As I like to say: "Please hand me that flensing knife and some finely powdered salt!"

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Magical thinking is a natural part of the grieving process. Sometimes as skeptics we have a hard time separating grief counseling where magical thinking is NOT necessarily discouraged but allowed to run its course, and scams like John Edwards, James Van Praagh and afterlife belief encouragers preaching about religious afterlives.

It's all about the money, the motives and whether or not the magical thinking is therapeutic or pathologic. The line between therapeutic magical thinking and pathologic or scam susceptible magical thinking is not a completely clear one.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I haven't read this book but I've heard the author speak briefly on some talk show interview many years ago. My recollection is the author had a lot of insight into the grieving process.

The Year of Magical Thinking
By Joan Didion

 

[wasapi]

You know, my opinion is not black or white, but there are gray areas.

One one hand I can't begin to imagine the pain of losing a child. No matter the age of the child. So, I tend to feel that whatever gives her any comfort, any brief respite from the chronic-grief, is alright.

But one thing that is clear cut is charging money for the comfort, as if a price on comfort can be measured. Yeah, yeah, everyone that provides a service should charge, ect. No. Just no.

 

[Ladewig]

You know, my opinion is not black or white, but there are gray areas.

One one hand I can't begin to imagine the pain of losing a child. No matter the age of the child. So, I tend to feel that whatever gives her any comfort, any brief respite from the chronic-grief, is alright.

I'm not trying to be snarky; I just want to play devil's advocate. If someone suggested she take some heroin to get a brief respite from the chronic grief, would that be acceptable?


....................

Taking money under false pretenses from someone whose judgement is clouded by perhaps the most upsetting event that one could ever experience. Yeah, I'm going to have to go with extremely immoral. Not even close.

 

[wasapi]

I'm not trying to be snarky; I just want to play devil's advocate. If someone suggested she take some heroin to get a brief respite from the chronic grief, would that be acceptable?


....................

Taking money under false pretenses from someone whose judgement is clouded by perhaps the most upsetting event that one could ever experience. Yeah, I'm going to have to go with extremely immoral. Not even close.

That's a fair question, however there is a difference in suggesting someone use a potentally addictive - and potentally health-damaging - drug, with suggesting a belief in comforting BS with little health hazards.

And no, you didn't come off snarky at all.

 

[Ladewig]

That's a fair question, however there is a difference in suggesting someone use a potentally addictive - and potentally health-damaging - drug, with suggesting a belief in comforting BS with little health hazards.

And no, you didn't come off snarky at all.

Rather than start an argument about how addictive mediums can be to some grieving parents, I withdraw the question completely.


Instead, let me ask this question. Is it acceptable for me to falsely claim to be a relief worker building a small hospital in a third world country and ask for donations from people? These folks feel better after giving me their money (which I spend on wine, women, and song), so does that make it acceptable?

 

[Brattus]

Had long talk the other day someone I know whose son died recently at the age of 20. I was a very close friend with him. And she started to give details of what had happened when one of her relatives had gone to a medium recently.

She gave very detailed examples of names they mentioned that were all in the family, about his funeral, what he enjoyed doing, his appearance, and other quite specific stuff about what he was saying to people from beyond the grave about not to be sad, etc. Typical stuff.

But what really got me was how this reading had effected her. It had suddenly made a person that was usually extremely sceptical in things like this an adamant believer that this is true, probably as she is in such a vulnerable place this sort of 'spiritual' event was something that might be able to help her cope with the event better. The idea that he is still alive somehow and able to contact people from beyond the grave seemed to give her a lot of comfort.

Of course this was not the right situation for me to be sceptical to her about it, so a good 2-3 hour chat commenced with me being considerate and understanding of various things like 'spirits', the significance of feathers falling from the sky from angels, life after death, ghosts, all sorts.

And I left quite confused about what I thought about it all. I used to think that mediums like this were just taking advantage of vulnerable people, but she has really gotten a hell of a lot of emotional comfort from this. She is considering going for a reading herself. I know its all likely baloney using various suggestion and using peoples reactions to get the right answers; but is this practise immoral or altruistic?

You can look as it as altruistic as this medium gave them advice that has made people in an extremely bad place a lot more positive about many things. But also it could be immoral as it's plainly mostly made up pseudo-therapy, using wishful thinking and co-incidence as fact.

Thoughts?

I think this is the rationalizing that some of the liars and scamers use to help them sleep at night.
They pretend they are helping people but they know they are turning a buck by leeching off others pain.

 

[12AX7]

...but to offer a paid service that is based on exploiting people at their weakest moment... that is pretty darn low. There are few occupation that I would rank lower, possibly none.

I feel this way about the funeral industry.

To the OP: I think that behavior is deplorable.

 

[FG10]

You often hear the 'what harm can it do?' argument on people visiting so-called psychics and mediums... 'after all, if it brings them some comfort...' etc etc. If I try to put myself in that position, and I sincerely doubt I would be so desperate as to lose my rationality so completely, I would think about the abject disgust and hurt I would feel on finding out that the person dishing out the 'calming words' was delusional or fraudulent.

I find there is no fathomable mitigating situation that would justify the use of such heinous lies as those used by the Spiritualist/psychic/mediumship communities. Resume has it right - they are vultures!

If I lost someone so close I would rather take comfort in the memories I had of them rather than in some selfishly misguided hope that they lived on in some creepy idea of existence for eternity.

 

[Auburnesq]

Oddly enough, this very subject is what brought me to this board. I have been lurking for a while, but haven't posted until now.

My 5 year old son and my mother-on-law were killed in a car accident this past January. I began attending a bereaved parents group shortly after his death. During one session I was said that it bothered me that I did not know if he was in pain or not when he died. One of the parents in the group assured me that my son felt no pain as he crossed over because she had spoken to her son when the facilitator of the group had arranged for a psychic to visit the group and she had asked him that very question. She went on to talk about his afterlife and several members of the group told of their contact with their children.

None of it sat well with me, especially not a mental health professional promoting a psychic as a method of dealing with grief. So, I stopped going to the group and started researching psychics, near death experiences and life after death for myself. I was raised Catholic and it has been an interesting experience sorting out what I can prove and what I believe. Unfortunately the catechism isn't very logical or helpful unless you choose to rely solely on blind faith. Thankfully, this board has been very helpful in my journey.

Anyway, as a grieving parent, I think it's unconscionable to lead people in that sort of pain on, especially for profit.

 

[Ladewig]

Oddly enough, this very subject is what brought me to this board. I have been lurking for a while, but haven't posted until now.

My 5 year old son and my mother-on-law were killed in a car accident this past January. I began attending a bereaved parents group shortly after his death. During one session I was said that it bothered me that I did not know if he was in pain or not when he died. One of the parents in the group assured me that my son felt no pain as he crossed over because she had spoken to her son when the facilitator of the group had arranged for a psychic to visit the group and she had asked him that very question. She went on to talk about his afterlife and several members of the group told of their contact with their children.

None of it sat well with me, especially not a mental health professional promoting a psychic as a method of dealing with grief. So, I stopped going to the group and started researching psychics, near death experiences and life after death for myself. I was raised Catholic and it has been an interesting experience sorting out what I can prove and what I believe. Unfortunately the catechism isn't very logical or helpful unless you choose to rely solely on blind faith. Thankfully, this board has been very helpful in my journey.

Anyway, as a grieving parent, I think it's unconscionable to lead people in that sort of pain on, especially for profit.

My condolences.

...............................
Choosing a counselor or mental health professional is, unfortunately, always a crap shoot. There are some very incompetent people in that field. But there are also good ones. You may want to try to find another - but be sure to ask probing questions in the first meeting.

..............................

If there is anything we can do to help, please ask.

 

[Garrette]

Oddly enough, this very subject is what brought me to this board. I have been lurking for a while, but haven't posted until now.

My 5 year old son and my mother-on-law were killed in a car accident this past January. I began attending a bereaved parents group shortly after his death. During one session I was said that it bothered me that I did not know if he was in pain or not when he died. One of the parents in the group assured me that my son felt no pain as he crossed over because she had spoken to her son when the facilitator of the group had arranged for a psychic to visit the group and she had asked him that very question. She went on to talk about his afterlife and several members of the group told of their contact with their children.

None of it sat well with me, especially not a mental health professional promoting a psychic as a method of dealing with grief. So, I stopped going to the group and started researching psychics, near death experiences and life after death for myself. I was raised Catholic and it has been an interesting experience sorting out what I can prove and what I believe. Unfortunately the catechism isn't very logical or helpful unless you choose to rely solely on blind faith. Thankfully, this board has been very helpful in my journey.

Anyway, as a grieving parent, I think it's unconscionable to lead people in that sort of pain on, especially for profit.

I am so very sorry for your loss. I cannot (literally cannot) imagine how I would respond or survive if something happened to my children.

It is precisely scenarios like this that I use in my counter-arguments to those who use the "but if it gives them solace isn't it good" defense.

My argument usually runs like this:

You know that I have no psychic abilities, right? And you know that I have the ability to make people believe that I DO have psychic abilities, right? Knowing that, would you be okay if I used my admittedly fake abilities to make your grieving sister or grieving mother or grieving wife feel better with lies? Would you be okay if I charged them $50 to do it? $100? What's your limit?

I rarely get a coherent response, though surprisingly one person has directly said he would be quite fine with it (though he gave me no limit on dollar amount).

 

[Resume]

Anyway, as a grieving parent, I think it's unconscionable to lead people in that sort of pain on, especially for profit.

As others, I am very sorry for your loss. I hope you take Ladewig's advice and seek another counselor.

 

[23_Tauri]

Rather than start an argument about how addictive mediums can be to some grieving parents, I withdraw the question completely.

I don't see why you see this line of conversation being taboo or a potential derail, as I consider your analogy as an insightful one, Ladewig. This is because an event such as going to a medium after loss of a loved one could lead to a long term addiction, as you note. An addiction that burns a hole in your bank account. And makes you stupid. Just like a hard drug.

Instead, let me ask this question. Is it acceptable for me to falsely claim to be a relief worker building a small hospital in a third world country and ask for donations from people? These folks feel better after giving me their money (which I spend on wine, women, and song), so does that make it acceptable?

But there's feeling better and feeling better, right? The person might give to the charity collector (whether fraudulent or no) in order to appease a sense of guilt. Do people go to mediums to appease their guilt over a recent deceased friend or relative? I guess they might. But giving to charity wouldn't start people being deluded in the way that might be possible through using drugs or mediums.

I don't know, I'm just trying to think this through.

 

[Ladewig]

I don't see why you see this line of conversation being taboo or a potential derail, as I consider your analogy as an insightful one, Ladewig. This is because an event such as going to a medium after loss of a loved one could lead to a long term addiction, as you note. An addiction that burns a hole in your bank account. And makes you stupid. Just like a hard drug.


But there's feeling better and feeling better, right? The person might give to the charity collector (whether fraudulent or no) in order to appease a sense of guilt. Do people go to mediums to appease their guilt over a recent deceased friend or relative? I guess they might. But giving to charity wouldn't start people being deluded in the way that might be possible through using drugs or mediums.

I don't know, I'm just trying to think this through.

If I may clarify. I agree that ADCers (after death communicators) are harmful in such a way as to be called an addiction in some cases. I just didn't want to have to argue that particular point. I agree with your post.

 

[Loss Leader]

It should be criminal. The "medium" is literally robbing people of their real memories of their loved ones and implanting false ones.