Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Tomtomkent]

You are in no position to criticize people on reading comprehension.


That's not the same sob story you were telling a few months ago. Try to keep your stories straight.

Pretty much my point. Glad somebody was up on the "reading and comprehension" thing.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Can you say grandchildren?

Ok, let's give you the benefit of the doubt...

Yes your family are lucky to have survived, as your action maximised their chances of harm, and increased the danger to the rest of your family and all their friends. Well done.

Better?

Either way, you are advocating the neglection of vaccines, and maximising the risk from infectious diseases to your family and all they come in to contact with. Even those who are vaccinated will be at an increased and unnecessery risk, based on a completely flawed perception of the science, and a complete failure to understand the massive disparity between the percieved risk of vaccination and the real risk of not vaccinating.

You can call that nasty if you like, I bare no ill will, I simply state the flaws in your claims.

 

[Giordano]

http://www.tga.gov.au/safety/alerts-medicine-seasonal-flu-100702.htm



How do babies put to sleep 18 hours a day, unobserved, communicate to their parents that they've had seizure or a convulsion?

CM, you have repeatedly argued in multiple threads that there is a huge danger from vaccines because of they often induce seizures and convulsions, but that this is unknown and unobserved because most of these seizures and convulsions happen when babies are asleep.

First- do you know what a seizure or convulsion is? I assure you that you would detect a seizure even in a sleeping or unconsciousness individual.

Second- have you ever had children? The "they sleep 18 hours a day" is not a very accurate picture of it. They catnap for 5 minutes to 2 hours, on and off, deeply and superficially, repeatedly throughout the day. And I certainly assure you as a parent that babies do not sleep quietly through any pain, discomfort, fever, chills, annoyance, indigestion, or (in the case of my own children) even being placed gently back in their cribs after rocking them for 2 hours at 3AM. They wake up and cry if they are hungry, or wet; do you really think that a baby would not wake up and cry its lungs out if it were having a seizure??

 

[Clayton Moore]

Yesterday afternoon I chanced upon a doctors show. It was free form day and they were asked impromptu questions. One question concerned male birth control.

The male doctors expressed great concern over the possible negative affects or consequences down the road and that any taking of drugs is risky because you are interfering with how the body does things.

A women doctor asked if the men weren't being selfish/insensitive to a woman's plight with possible negative effects when taking a birth control product.

The men quickly said they weren't thrilled with their wives and daughters taking birth control.

One woman doctor mention at least twice that (some I would guess) birth control products had benefits beyond birth control.


How can doctors and the medical community be so free with pumping multiple vaccines into babies when these people are queasy about taking a pill?

 

[TSR]

How can doctors and the medical community be so free with pumping multiple vaccines into babies when these people are queasy about taking a pill?

.
Maybe because there is a difference between preventing what a body would do naturally and helping it to do so?
.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Yesterday afternoon I chanced upon a doctors show. It was free form day and they were asked impromptu questions. One question concerned male birth control.

The male doctors expressed great concern over the possible negative affects or consequences down the road and that any taking of drugs is risky because you are interfering with how the body does things.

A women doctor asked if the men weren't being selfish/insensitive to a woman's plight with possible negative effects when taking a birth control product.

The men quickly said they weren't thrilled with their wives and daughters taking birth control.

One woman doctor mention at least twice that (some I would guess) birth control products had benefits beyond birth control.


How can doctors and the medical community be so free with pumping multiple vaccines into babies when these people are queasy about taking a pill?

So your argument is if one kind of medication has controls and known risks why is an entirely different vaccination treated differently?

Well obviously because the associated risks are entirely different. The vaccine is unlikely to share any constituent components with a birth control pill.

How can these doctors let you eat fish so freely when shuddering at an unrelated pill?

 

[Travis]

Slight chance of rash vs potential deafness and being absolutely miserable for weeks?

Gee, that's a hard one.

 

[excaza]

How can doctors and the medical community be so free with pumping multiple vaccines into babies when these people are queasy about taking a pill?

Are you seriously trying to draw a parallel between birth control and vaccines? You do realize how they each work?



Stupid question, of course you don't.

 

[Clayton Moore]

CM, you have repeatedly argued in multiple threads that there is a huge danger from vaccines because of they often induce seizures and convulsions, but that this is unknown and unobserved because most of these seizures and convulsions happen when babies are asleep.

First- do you know what a seizure or convulsion is? I assure you that you would detect a seizure even in a sleeping or unconsciousness individual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Febrile_seizure

Symptoms

During simple febrile seizures, the body will become stiff and the arms and legs will begin twitching. The patient loses consciousness, although their eyes remain open. Breathing can be irregular. They may become incontinent (wet or soil themselves); they may also vomit or have increased secretions (foam at the mouth). The seizure normally lasts for less than five minutes.[8]

Detect away.

 

[Tomtomkent]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Febrile_seizure

Symptoms



Detect away.

So if it's unknown and unobserved... what evidence is there it happens on the scale discussed?

 

[Giordano]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Febrile_seizure

Symptoms



Detect away.

Do you think a parent wouldn't notice their child's legs twitching, their eyes opening, their breathing becoming irregular, vomiting and foaming at the mouth as they "sleep?"

I have to ask you again: have you ever had children yourself? I ask because parents become extremely attuned to their child's normal behavior, awake and asleep, and you or your spouse are typically within 20 feet of the child for most of the first 5 years of their life. You can recognize your own child's cry, and it will immediately wake you up. It took me years after my own children grew up to sleep soundly again. And you expect parents to routinely not notice the seizures you describe?

 

[Giordano]

So if it's unknown and unobserved... what evidence is there it happens on the scale discussed?

It's the worse kind of silent epidemic: not only does no one realize it is happening, but it also leaves no trace! Makes one shiver in fear, doesn't it?

 

[Robrob]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Febrile_seizure

Symptoms

Detect away.

From your own link:

"A febrile seizure, also known as a fever fit or febrile convulsion, is a convulsion associated with a significant rise in body temperature. They most commonly occur in children between the ages of 6 months and 6 years and are twice as common in boys as in girls."

So you "imagine" the evidence for your claims are unreported and unobserved fever fits?

This is what happens when you try and make claims based on things you don't understand.

 

[Clayton Moore]

From your own link:

"A febrile seizure, also known as a fever fit or febrile convulsion, is a convulsion associated with a significant rise in body temperature. They most commonly occur in children between the ages of 6 months and 6 years and are twice as common in boys as in girls."

So you "imagine" the evidence for your claims are unreported and unobserved fever fits?

This is what happens when you try and make claims based on things you don't understand.

Last time I noticed there were 24 hours in a day. A baby or toddler sleeps at least 1/2 that, likely unobserved. Fevers don't tell time. So 50% of baby seizures probably go unobserved.

 

[Border Reiver]

You are assuming that the child only has a fever when asleep? A fever high enough to cause a seizure is not a low grade one, but is likely running at least 104 degrees F. These fevers don't go from normal temp (98.6 fahrenheit) to this level in minutes, cause a seizure, then subside quickly - if my own kids have been any guide.

 

[twinstead]

Last time I noticed there were 24 hours in a day. A baby or toddler sleeps at least 1/2 that, likely unobserved. Fevers don't tell time. So 50% of baby seizures probably go unobserved.

Ah, "probably" and "likely" indeed. This is where you are just using simple untested conjecture to hand wave away problems with your theory. My 10 year old could do that Clayton. Got data?

 

[Tomtomkent]

Last time I noticed there were 24 hours in a day. A baby or toddler sleeps at least 1/2 that, likely unobserved. Fevers don't tell time. So 50% of baby seizures probably go unobserved.

And the other 50% of the "unobserved" fits?

Seriously, I have heard of a half arsed answer before, but that takes it too literally.

 

[Tomtomkent]

You are assuming that the child only has a fever when asleep? A fever high enough to cause a seizure is not a low grade one, but is likely running at least 104 degrees F. These fevers don't go from normal temp (98.6 fahrenheit) to this level in minutes, cause a seizure, then subside quickly - if my own kids have been any guide.

And the fits are silent, so they don't appear on baby monitors, or while the baby is sleeping in a cot in the same room as the parent keeping an eye on it...

 

[TSR]

Yeah, If M managed to kick a stuffed toy out of the crib I'd hear. Didn't always go running to put it back, but I'd hear. Made things "fun" when zie spent weekends with zir other parent: I could sleep more soundly, but would wake with every muscle coiled: "I don't hear the baby! ..... Oh, yeah." < rolls back over to sleep some more >

 

[Giordano]

Last time I noticed there were 24 hours in a day. A baby or toddler sleeps at least 1/2 that, likely unobserved. Fevers don't tell time. So 50% of baby seizures probably go unobserved.

Okay, you've answered my question: you've never raised children. Presumably you think that babies are just put into an upstair bedroom all day, where they spend half their time in a deep slumber indistinguishable from an unconscious state while their parents are downstairs or in the garden blissfully involved in their own activities.

Trust me (speaking as a parent): babies go through many awake and sleep cycles every day, there is always a parent or responsible adult "within earshot" and high fevers, convulsions, vomiting, and foaming at the mouth are not going to be unobserved.