Saudi Scepticism in action? Witch beheaded.

[sadhatter]

Interesting. I've always wondered whether a witch's tit or a well diggers ass was colder. Now I know (assuming, of course that you actually know).

With how much scraping the bottom of the barrel mythbusters is doing, i guarantee this is going to be an episode next season.

" So carrie, we need a control tit, yeah we know it is a bit degrading, but whatcha gonna do?"

 

[steenkh]

I am confused here. Are we saying that the Saudi court considers "sourcery" to be a threat to Islam because they believe it is real, or because it is fraudulent?

From what I have read, it is the former. She is not beheaded because she is defrauding people but for performing dangerous sourcery. It reminds me of the stance that the Catholic church has towards witchcraft. They condemn it, not because it is fraud, but because it represents an alliance with the devil.

 

[TriangleMan]

In Qatar there are also some kind of laws against "sorcery" or divination because every now and then the police arrest some people who were selling luck amulets or other nonsense to gullible people. The arrested people now have a choice -- the talismans don't work (in which case they are con artists) or the talismans do work and they are guilty of sorcery, which is apparently a very serious crime in Islam. I think most opt for "con artist". Unlike Saudi Arabia I've never heard of anyone being executed in Qatar for sorcery.

So no astrologers or psychics are advertising here. I'm sure there are some here amongst the South Asian community but they keep a low profile.

 

[Cuddles]

From what I have read, it is the former. She is not beheaded because she is defrauding people but for performing dangerous sourcery. It reminds me of the stance that the Catholic church has towards witchcraft. They condemn it, not because it is fraud, but because it represents an alliance with the devil.

Do you have any evidence to support this? Because no-one else has provided any, and all the evidence we actually have says that this is simply not the case. This woman was executed for being a fraud - she claimed she could cure illness, and she could not. The important point is that the Saudi courts appear to believe in magic and have absolutely no problem stating that as a reason for executing someone. Why would they suddenly get shy in this particular case and pretend she was convicted for something else?

 

[steenkh]

Do you have any evidence to support this? Because no-one else has provided any, and all the evidence we actually have says that this is simply not the case. This woman was executed for being a fraud - she claimed she could cure illness, and she could not. The important point is that the Saudi courts appear to believe in magic and have absolutely no problem stating that as a reason for executing someone. Why would they suddenly get shy in this particular case and pretend she was convicted for something else?

OK.

BBC News writes: "Saudi woman executed for 'witchcraft and sorcery'":

A Saudi woman has been executed for practising "witchcraft and sorcery", the country's interior ministry says.

A statement published by the state news agency said Amina bint Abdul Halim bin Salem Nasser was beheaded on Monday in the northern province of Jawf.

The ministry gave no further details of the charges which the woman faced.

(my emphasis)
It adds:

Amnesty [International] says that Saudi Arabia does not actually define sorcery as a capital offence. However, some of its conservative clerics have urged the strongest possible punishments against fortune-tellers and faith healers as a threat to Islam.

The other media seem to have taken their news from BBC News:
International Business Times
ABC News
CNN
Not a single one of the articles I found even mentioned the word fraud.
They sometimes mention the items found in the woman's possession, along with a statement of how much she charged her customers, but these things are mentioned being used "for sorcery". It seems that the Saudi religious police (now there is a hint to what they think is important) deem her sorcery dangerous to Islam, not as being without effect.

 

[Cuddles]

Not a single one of the articles I found even mentioned the word fraud.

Which is odd, since you just quoted exactly the same BBC article from the OP that I've already quoted this part from:

The London-based newspaper, al-Hayat, quoted a member of the religious police as saying that she was in her 60s and had tricked people into giving her money, claiming that she could cure their illnesses.

Sure, the exact word "fraud" isn't there, just the explicit statement that she conned money out of people by pretending to have magic powers.

It's really not complicated at all. The only evidence we have here is the Saudi religious police telling us the woman was executed for fraud. If you don't believe them, why believe sorcery was involved at all rather than just some political motivation? If you believe them on one part, why are you willing to completely ignore the other part despite having no evidence whatsoever to the contrary?

As I already pointed out, the Saudi courts have absolutely no problem executing people who they actually believe are doing magic, and happily announce that to the rest of the world. But in this case, they did no such thing and instead said that it was because she was tricking people into thinking she could do magic. It seems some people are so eager to criticise them for being credulous that they'll do so even when the criticism appears to be completely irrelevant to the case at hand.

 

[steenkh]

As I already pointed out, the Saudi courts have absolutely no problem executing people who they actually believe are doing magic, and happily announce that to the rest of the world. But in this case, they did no such thing and instead said that it was because she was tricking people into thinking she could do magic.

Could you point where they said that she has been charged with fraud? The quote you made did not mention her charge.

I am not denying that she did commit fraud, nor that the police - probably - was aware of it. But the actual charge was sorcery. I can find no statement anywhere that they were interested in the fraud aspect. On the contrary, they specifically claim that her actions was "a danger to Islam", and I doubt that they think that fraud is a danger to Islam.