Why vegans are simply better people

[Hazel]

It's a tough call, it all depends what's meant by aggressive, who was saying it and why they were saying it. Does passive aggressive count as being aggressive ? how about laying guilt trips, is that considered aggression ?

One could make an argument that a personality type who's prone to regular old in your face overt aggression isn't the personality type who'd resort to not eating meat for moral/ethical reasons. ie cruelty free reasons.

I've run across that statement in a feminist, anti-VAW context before but never "in general"

I agree that 'aggressive' is a difficult word to use there. This was a report on some research someone had done but I doubt it was a "set in steel" scientific research project. A magazine article, perhaps. I doubt it would stand up in court although I am suddenly remembering the twinkies case that stood in court in San Francisco years ago. It was just something that struck me as interesting in regards to eating or not eating meat.

 

[Hazel]

That's a good point. One rarely hears from vegans. Aside from splashing red paint on fur, freeing lab animals, loud protests, provocative ads and monkey-wrenching in general they tend to be rather introverted.

*Not meant to stereotype. Just making a point.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

That's a good point. One rarely hears from vegans. Aside from splashing red paint on fur, freeing lab animals, loud protests, provocative ads and monkey-wrenching in general they tend to be rather introverted.

*Not meant to stereotype. Just making a point.

Hmmm.... my sarcasm meter is smoking, for some reason

THIS IS AN ANECDOTAL AND ISOLATED STORY, before anyone accuses me of stereotyping (which I happily do constantly, but not this time)

One vegan I met once explained to me all the rational reasons for being vegan (abating cruelty to animals, helping the environment, digestive health, etc.) I was almost on her side when she announced that the reason that people are omnivorous in the first place is because the aliens who visited us 3000 years ago didn't successfully combine their DNA with ours, so we're still "stalled," so to speak.

I leave it to you to explain why I continued the conversation.

 

[Stout]

I agree that 'aggressive' is a difficult word to use there. This was a report on some research someone had done but I doubt it was a "set in steel" scientific research project. A magazine article, perhaps. I doubt it would stand up in court although I am suddenly remembering the twinkies case that stood in court in San Francisco years ago. It was just something that struck me as interesting in regards to eating or not eating meat.

I had to google the twinkies case, I would appear that the twinkies were more a matter of being a symptom of depression and unrelated to the topic at hand.

Well the google tells me that twinkies are suitable for ovo-lacto vegetarians but not vegans.

 

[Belz...]

So it was a troll-and-run OP ?

 

[Hazel]

Hmmm.... my sarcasm meter is smoking, for some reason

THIS IS AN ANECDOTAL AND ISOLATED STORY, before anyone accuses me of stereotyping (which I happily do constantly, but not this time)

One vegan I met once explained to me all the rational reasons for being vegan (abating cruelty to animals, helping the environment, digestive health, etc.) I was almost on her side when she announced that the reason that people are omnivorous in the first place is because the aliens who visited us 3000 years ago didn't successfully combine their DNA with ours, so we're still "stalled," so to speak.

I leave it to you to explain why I continued the conversation.

Gee, I hope you asked her to prove that. 3000 years ago, 1000 years BC. Wonder if the Babylonians knew. Maybe those mysterious mountain gods they spoke about were simply aliens. Interesting theory?

 

[RandFan]

Thanks for taking that in stride Hazel.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Sorry if this has been asked in the thread .. but why to vegetarians and vegans constantly disguise their chosen food as MEAT?

 

[Hazel]

I had to google the twinkies case, I would appear that the twinkies were more a matter of being a symptom of depression and unrelated to the topic at hand.

Well the google tells me that twinkies are suitable for ovo-lacto vegetarians but not vegans.

An overdose of sugar which can indeed make one hyper but oh so good.

As for the depression excuse, should that have gotten him off? Nevermind. I'm off-topic. Was just thinking how we use foods as excuses for our behavior. I'll stop.

 

[Hazel]

Sorry if this has been asked in the thread .. but why to vegetarians and vegans constantly disguise their chosen food as MEAT?

Are you talking about soy products? This would not be done by the best producers or by straightforward, honest vegetarians. We have "soy burgers" "veggie loaf", other such. The pictures look deceiving and the words "burgers" and "loaf" might trick someone into misreading but not those who eat these products. I don't think they would tell you they were eating meat.

At least I hope not. Since some people are allergic to soy products, care must be taken there. If you will read labels on many of your foods, you'll see they now contain soy and are listed as one of the possible allergy items.
But, maybe that isn't what you were referring to?

 

[Furcifer]

Sorry if this has been asked in the thread .. but why to vegetarians and vegans constantly disguise their chosen food as MEAT?

Honestly? I think 90% of the motivation is to have compatible food that can be cooked side by side with meat to avoid creating additional work.

About the only time I ever had vegetarian meat products was when I went to a BBQ. You grab a pack of fake dogs or burgers and hand them to the host to warm on the BBQ. So long as you're not with a vegan that insists nothing be cooked alongside meat (the inside you your mouth is meat fyi, so whatever)

It also helps avoid the dreaded "Soooo, you're a vegetarian are you?" that tends to come up at gatherings.

The other 10% would be as a substitute in dishes that call for "ground beef" or something like that.

 

[RandFan]

Are you talking about soy products?

I think what's being asked is why make soy products look like meat products. Especially tofurky. I don't have a problem with it. I eat the non-meat chicken and burger patties and I like them. I think the tofurky is kinda silly but that's JMO. I would say it's done for those who are used to foods looking a certain way like patties to feel that they are. It's a double edged sword. If it looks like a burger and tastes like crap then for some people perhaps the disguise isn't a good idea.

 

[Hazel]

I think what's being asked is why make soy products look like meat products. Especially tofurky. I don't have a problem with it. I eat the non-meat chicken and burger patties and I like them. I think the tofurky is kinda silly but that's JMO. I would say it's done for those who are used to foods looking a certain way like patties to feel that they are. It's a double edged sword. If it looks like a burger and tastes like crap then for some people perhaps the disguise isn't a good idea.

Oh, is that what was meant by "disguise". Well, as someone said, it does avoid that "Sooooo......" bit. I'd never given it a thought. The burger patties are indeed quite good. At least the brand I use. The "hot dogs" are, to me, indistinguishable from meat ones. Quite good. I suppose, like any other food, some brands are good and some aren't. I've not seen the tofurkey but a friend talked about it. She didn't care for it.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Are you talking about soy products? This would not be done by the best producers or by straightforward, honest vegetarians. We have "soy burgers" "veggie loaf", other such. The pictures look deceiving and the words "burgers" and "loaf" might trick someone into misreading but not those who eat these products. I don't think they would tell you they were eating meat.

At least I hope not. Since some people are allergic to soy products, care must be taken there. If you will read labels on many of your foods, you'll see they now contain soy and are listed as one of the possible allergy items.
But, maybe that isn't what you were referring to?

That's the idea ... but there's many more examples Vegan "Shepards pie" (a traditional meat dish) Vegan burgers, "meat loaf" and "hot dogs" you've covered ... other example vegan "milk" products.

A Vegan diet can be fine ... but why disguise so many dishes as thought they are meat??

 

[Morrigan]

Honestly? I think 90% of the motivation is to have compatible food that can be cooked side by side with meat to avoid creating additional work.

Lol, I find it a lot more likely that it's because they know about the superior taste of meat and want to enjoy it without getting their hands dirty.

 

[Hazel]

That's the idea ... but there's many more examples Vegan "Shepards pie" (a traditional meat dish) Vegan burgers, "meat loaf" and "hot dogs" you've covered ... other example vegan "milk" products.

A Vegan diet can be fine ... but why disguise so many dishes as thought they are meat??

Shepards pie! Is it traditionally a meat dish? I didn't know that. Like pasties, can't it have anything you happen to have and want to use?

I have not seen a "vegan milk product". There is soy beverage but is it called "milk"? I do not know as I don't buy it. So, I never paid attention. I may be wrong but I don't think any product is allowed to use a dairy name unless it really is milk, butter, cheese. That is why we so often see "creme" on a product instead of "cream". At least that used to be true. Times change and I can't keep up.

Well, I'm getting off-topic and someone else answered quite well. I am off to a birthday party. Good night.

 

[Dessi]

I was intended to stay out of this thread since it was a cesspoll, but hell, I have to respond to...

By far the best thread on the subject is when LionKing attempted to raise awareness about how so much chocolate is produced by slaves. Child slaves. A vegan came to that thread and said, "So? Chocolate is gooooooood." Others were horrified, the sort of people who write love letters to bacon, but this guy kept at it: "Mmmmmm, I love my slave chocolate!" Omnivores missed the satire and thought this guy was terrible, but he was in all likelihood a better person than each and every one of them.

There it is.

I've been in animal rights discussions for years. I think in pretty much every one of these threads, there's at least 8 people who comment "but I just love eating meat / I'm just not bothered by animal cruelty enough to stop loving bacon / mmmmmmmmm tortured baby cow / my culture approves of eating meat", really crass and unproductive comments. Not too often I get to see the exact same sentiment applied to human slavery. I picked up on the ironic mockery right away.

The reactions in that thread were absolutely surreal.

RandFan's recent thread on deriving an 'ought' from an 'is' was, while not being quite as funny, surreal too. Exact same people in that thread who argue against RandFan's position are the very first one's to say "well of course eating meat is ok, we're evolved omnivore's right?"

 

[RandFan]

I was intended to stay out of this thread since it was a cesspoll, but hell, I have to respond to...

There it is.

I've been in animal rights discussions for years. I think in pretty much every one of these threads, there's at least 8 people who comment "but I just love eating meat / I'm just not bothered by animal cruelty enough to stop loving bacon / mmmmmmmmm tortured baby cow / my culture approves of eating meat", really crass and unproductive comments. Not too often I get to see the exact same sentiment applied to human slavery. I picked up on the ironic mockery right away.

The reactions in that thread were absolutely surreal.

In the interest of full disclosure I've been one of those who made a lot of noise about eating animals to piss of the vegans. If you search for PETA (people for eating tasty animals) you will find I said that on this forum once or twice some years back. For me that has become trite.

RandFan's recent thread on deriving an 'ought' from an 'is' was, while not being quite as funny, surreal too. Exact same people in that thread who argue against RandFan's position are the very first one's to say "well of course eating meat is ok, we're evolved omnivore's right?"

What a roller-coaster ride. I'd like to say I learned my lesson. But hell, this month is my ten year anniversary here. I'll likely be eating crow again in the not too distant future. Keep your popcorn handy.

Ego, ain't it a bitch?

 

[Ron Swanson]

Shepards pie! Is it traditionally a meat dish? I didn't know that. Like pasties, can't it have anything you happen to have and want to use?

I have not seen a "vegan milk product". There is soy beverage but is it called "milk"? I do not know as I don't buy it. So, I never paid attention. I may be wrong but I don't think any product is allowed to use a dairy name unless it really is milk, butter, cheese. That is why we so often see "creme" on a product instead of "cream". At least that used to be true. Times change and I can't keep up.

Well, I'm getting off-topic and someone else answered quite well. I am off to a birthday party. Good night.

Perhaps shepard's pie was not the best example? but I think it is a traditional meat dish ... even if that's incorrect the other examples are sufficient to make my point, no?

"Almond Milk" is a popular vegan product here in Canada ... and it says the word milk on the carton ... so why use fake 'milk' ??

 

[dafydd]

I think what's being asked is why make soy products look like meat products. Especially tofurky. I don't have a problem with it. I eat the non-meat chicken and burger patties and I like them. I think the tofurky is kinda silly but that's JMO. I would say it's done for those who are used to foods looking a certain way like patties to feel that they are. It's a double edged sword. If it looks like a burger and tastes like crap then for some people perhaps the disguise isn't a good idea.

Tofu? You may as well eat rubber.