Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Wroclaw]

Even in retrospect I'm surprised.

<SNIP> ? It occurs to me they might be interested. It's rare they can find company at a comparable social status level.

Edited, breach of rule 0, rule 11, rule 12.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar

 

[LemmyCaution]

Even in retrospect I'm surprised.

Your surprise indicates how little you know of the real world around you.

 

[Saggy]

<SNIP> ? It occurs to me they might be interested. It's rare they can find company at a comparable social status level.

Edited by Locknar: 

Moderated content removed.

For those interested, Wroclaw is giving an ongoing master class in Zionist tactics of debate. First, irrelevancies, then insult, then sexual deviation, scatology, right to the bottom of the barrel. First the Zionists try to have the holohoax denier arrested which is what happens in Europe, that failing in the US they try to have them banned, and indeed most discussion site ban holohoax denial, and when that fails they pollute the discussion with endless crap. Case in point.

 

[TSR]

For those interested, Wroclaw is giving an ongoing master class...

.
It may be of interest that when Saggs writes "Zionist", he *really* means Jew, who he defines as "anyone who contradicts me".

All the while showing the denier debate tactic of "assert without evidence to support it (in fact, often any "evidence" offered directly contradicts zir crap when not read through Saggs' lens of hate), ignore correction and change the subject. Wait a while, then repeat".

Aren't we about due for the children's zoo lie again, Saggs?
.

 

[LemmyCaution]

For those interested, Wroclaw is giving an ongoing master class in Zionist tactics of debate. First, irrelevancies, then insult, then sexual deviation, scatology, right to the bottom of the barrel. First the Zionists try to have the holohoax denier arrested which is what happens in Europe, that failing in the US they try to have them banned, and indeed most discussion site ban holohoax denial, and when that fails they pollute the discussion with endless crap. Case in point.

The predicament you find yourself in was well described by . . . you. Given your conspiracy-laden view of the world and its false expectations, you are shocked, just shocked to learn how isolated your views about reality are. The status of social pariah, which is the status that so-called revisionists occupy in the culture, whether rightly or wrongly, is such that even those you assume to be your natural allies think your version of history is nonsense and that you guys are crackpots.

What you have utterly failed to reply to Nick about is how you move from pariah status to having any kind of impact at all, let alone changing the views and conclusions of those who study history for a living - and shape what the public understands. You really need a better strategy than 1) repeat false claims over and over and 2) hope for the best because you are convinced you're right and the history is a house of cards. Your holding this view shows that you haven't engaged with the history as produced by academics and that you have no more understanding of the contours of this debate than you do of what the National Socialists did before and during the war.

 

[Wroclaw]

It's been said here that there is no mention of the Holocaust in Churchill's memoirs. I was just watching a documentary on Youtube that quoted Churchill at the end; interestingly, it comes from The Gathering Storm, the first volume of Churchill's multivolume memoir:

In the Second World War every bond between man and man was to perish. Crimes were committed by the Germans under the Hitlerite dominion to which they allowed themselves to be subjected which find no equal in scale and wickedness with any that have darkened the human record. The wholesale massacre by systematised processes of six or seven millions of men, women, and children in the German execution camps exceeds in horror the rough-and-ready butcheries of Genghis Khan, and in scale reduces them to pigmy proportions.

Whoops!

 

[Clayton Moore]

Please note that I don't need NT to explain the futility of holohoax denial to me !

I don't disagree with much of what you have written, in particular ...

You know, the overwhelming majority of anti-Zionists are not also revisionists. They're surely your prime target audience, and they're not convinced by you.


It's worst than that ! I took it one further, who should be the easiest people to convince? The Palestinians, right? They hate the Jews, they know what duplicitous creatures they are. They are murdered and oppressed by the Jews everyday. Surely they will be prime targets, right? Wrong. On campus there was a group Palestinians for Justice or some such (I've forgotten the exact name) and I tried on several, at least 5, occasions to engage members personally in a discussion of the hoax, and 5 more via email. It was if I had leprosy, they absolutely would not discuss any aspect of the holocaust and would even walk away even though they were manning an information table. Absolutely remarkable. Unfortunately I give up easily in personal encounters, but I still think there is some possibility here?

They know the Holocaust is used, in a multitude of ways, as a weapon worldwide. It puts the indelible H on the forehead of anyone who questions it.

 

[Hans]

It's been said here that there is no mention of the Holocaust in Churchill's memoirs. I was just watching a documentary on Youtube that quoted Churchill at the end; interestingly, it comes from The Gathering Storm, the first volume of Churchill's multivolume memoir:



Whoops!

Yes I had wondered about that claim, thanks for posting the answer

 

[LemmyCaution]

It's been said here that there is no mention of the Holocaust in Churchill's memoirs. I was just watching a documentary on Youtube that quoted Churchill at the end; interestingly, it comes from The Gathering Storm, the first volume of Churchill's multivolume memoir:



Whoops!

Very interesting. It does pay to read the things one spouts off about. Quiz: How many deniers playing the Churchill game have read the volumes and can tell us what they cover and don't cover?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Yes I had wondered about that claim, thanks for posting the answer

Sorry to burst that bubble.


Wroclaw

It's been said here that there is no mention of the Holocaust in Churchill's memoirs. I was just watching a documentary on Youtube that quoted Churchill at the end; interestingly, it comes from The Gathering Storm, the first volume of Churchill's multivolume memoir:

Wroclaw knows perfectly well it's been said here that there is no mention of the "gas chambers" in Churchill's memoirs, not the Holocaust.

Ask Wroclaw why he posted it.

 

[Wroclaw]

Show of hands: How many of you think Churchill was thinking of gas chambers when he wrote the above?

 

[Border Reiver]

Can't find the emoticon for raising a hand...

I believe our cigar chewing, wiskey drinking war leader may have been referring to the entirety of the Holocaust and the concentration camp system, the casualties it produced and the systemic manner in which it was carried out by allegedly civilized people.

 

[SpitfireIX]

It's been said here that there is no mention of the Holocaust in Churchill's memoirs. I was just watching a documentary on Youtube that quoted Churchill at the end; interestingly, it comes from The Gathering Storm, the first volume of Churchill's multivolume memoir:



Whoops!

Here is the Google Books edition. Quotation appears on pp. 15-16.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Show of hands: How many of you think Churchill was thinking of gas chambers when he wrote the above?

Let's see - WC wrote "German execution camps." Perhaps he meant the German execution camps not using gas to kill, which no one calls execution camps?

 

[Nick Terry]

You know what they say, and you know who they are, "There's no business like Shoah business."

Non sequitur. Not even vaguely responsive to what I wrote in the post to which you replied.

 

[Nick Terry]

If it's so futile, why do you bother?

Well, it's interesting as hell, and it's inevitable that the hoax will collapse eventually ...

Saying anything is 'inevitable' is dogmatic thinking. You're old enough to remember those Marxists weirdos who ran around before the end of the Cold War. They were big on 'inevitable' this and 'inevitable' that. Didn't work out too well for them, did it?

There must have been hundreds of JREF members who over the past 2-3 years have expressed the opinion that they want nothing to do with Holocaust denial, or that they reject its premises utterly.

This is what makes it so freaking fascinating. Remember, I just had an encounter with a fellow and when I told him the holocaust was a hoax his response was ... 'The earth isn't flat'. Perfect. Yet, by considering the Belsen situation and pics, and seeing the pics of the hoax Auschwitz gas chamber, he was reconsidering in TEN MINUTES. The thing is a house of cards .... just waiting to be toppled !

In ten minutes? You've been here 23 months. Precisely how many people have you actually converted in that time?

Instead of blaming the audience, why aren't you rethinking your approach?

I understand the hoax, now I'm trying to understand the audience, that's the whole game for me.

And you're doing soooo well at understanding the audience, especially when you insult them gratuitously.

 

[Nick Terry]

For those interested, Wroclaw is giving an ongoing master class in Zionist tactics of debate. First, irrelevancies, then insult, then sexual deviation, scatology, right to the bottom of the barrel. First the Zionists try to have the holohoax denier arrested which is what happens in Europe, that failing in the US they try to have them banned, and indeed most discussion site ban holohoax denial, and when that fails they pollute the discussion with endless crap. Case in point.

Yet there's a serious point underlying Wroclaw's post. It's that Holocaust deniers are viewed as virtually on a par with paedophiles by a significant proportion of western society.

The reactions you have provoked here, on multiple threads, bear this out. So this isn't being insulting, it's just a statement of fact, an objective observation.

All Wroclaw did was put it into joke form, which seemed very appropriate given how you had just admitted that you had failed to excite the interest of pro-Palestinian activists.

 

[A'isha]

It puts the indelible H on the forehead of anyone who questions it.

 

[Saggy]

Yet there's a serious point underlying Wroclaw's post.

His post is entirely serious and unfortunately effective, Zionists have laid claim to the right to level any insult whatever at anyone who challenges them, and to have it accepted or even applauded by the cultural arbiters. Thus you and Wroclaw feel it's perfectly fine to associate people who disagree with you with pedophiles. I was/am actually worried that I'll be suspended for pointing out how truly degenerate these tactics are.

 

[Wroclaw]

Two points here:

(1) I'm not a Zionist.

(2) I don't begrudge the right to social-climb to anyone, including Holocaust deniers.