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In Search of Common Ground: A Conversation with Ron Wieck

ozeco41 said:
Yes... :o

Several of us have been poInting them at the timeline realities...

...but have we ever got "them" to discuss time line?
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If you look in the direction of the setting sun you will notice a dust cloud near the horizon. That's shure and jimd running away from a reasoned debate about the topics they introduced themselves.
 
ElMondoHummus said:
Masochism? :D
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Witnessing, same reason the JWs go door to door. By espousing your beliefs to others and defending them your conviction grows stronger.

ETA: you also build a lot of street cred with the others in the group and if you manage to get banned you get the martyr card to play.
 
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Any of you Sherlocks figure out yet why the Commander in Chief of the Armed forces and the Secretary of Defense left the VP, who isn't in the military chain of command in charge during the 9-11 attacks yet? No?

Any new conspiracy theories on why the President doesn't want you knowing who else was involved in the murder of 3000 Americans?
 
Will anyone anywhere now dispute that we are at the bottom of the barrel with regards to the"truth" movement?
 
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Sabretooth said:
You've lost the shoot-down argument.
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There was no shoot down argument. We all know there was no shoot down, nor did we claim any particular plane should have been shot down. The argument presented was Dick Cheney had no authority to issue shoot down orders, and until somebody with authority issued them no plane was being shot down.

Sabretooth said:
You've failed to prove Saudi involvement.
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We don't need to the FBI already proved it with their penttbom investigation.


http://intelfiles.egoplex.com/2002-04-15-FBI-LHM-omar-al-bayoumi2.pdf

http://intelfiles.egoplex.com/2001-10-03-FBI-penttbomb-bayoumi.pdf

What country do you think is in reference to in the congressional record - Iraq? LOL..you probably do!

Congressional Record: October 28, 2003 (Senate)
(3) The Administration's decision to classify this
information prevents the American people from having access
to information about the involvement of certain foreign
governments in the terrorist attacks of September 2001.
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http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s102803.html


Sabretooth said:
Thread over.
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Pretty Much

beachnut said:
NWO business done! We can all take off for Christmas! Good job.
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Figure out your chain of command yet Rambo?
 
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jimd3100 said:
There was no shoot down argument. We all know there was no shoot down, nor did we claim any particular plane should have been shot down. The argument presented was Dick Cheney had no authority to issue shoot down orders, and until somebody with authority issued them no plane was being shot down.



We don't need to the FBI already proved it with their penttbom investigation.


http://intelfiles.egoplex.com/2002-04-15-FBI-LHM-omar-al-bayoumi2.pdf

http://intelfiles.egoplex.com/2001-10-03-FBI-penttbomb-bayoumi.pdf

What country do you think is in reference to in the congressional record - Iraq? LOL..you probably do!


http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s102803.html




Pretty Much



Figure out your chain of command yet Rambo?
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And you failed, your Cheney said shoot-down, means there was a stand-down is the dumbest claim made about 911. Live with it. You wasted your time making up nonsense. You succeeded.'


You use statements made up by news agencies, and I am being polite, as evidence. You use hearsay, and make up nonsense.


Details: The purpose of this communication is to advise the Bureau and New York of the possibility of a coordinated effort by USAMA-BIN-LADEN (UBL) to send students to the United States to attend civil aviation universities and colleges. Phoenix has observed an inordinate number of individuals of investigative interest who are attending or who have attended civil aviation universities and colleges in the State of Arizona. The inordinate number of these individuals attending these type of schools and fatwas issued by AL-MUHJIROUN spiritual leader SHEIK OMAR BAKRI MOHAMMED FOSTOK, an ardent supporter of UBL, gives reason to believe that a coordinated effort is underway to establish a cadre of individuals who will one day be working in the civil aviation community around the world. These individuals will be in a position in the future to conduct terror activity against civil aviation targets.
Phoenix believes that the FBI should accumulate a listing of civil aviation universities/colleges around the country. FBI field offices with these types of schools in their area should establish appropriate liaison. FBIHQ should discuss this matter with other elements of the U.S. intelligence community and task the community for any information that supports Phoenix’s suspicions. FBIHQ should consider seeking the necessary authority to obtain visa information from the USDOS on individuals obtaining visas to attend these types of schools and notify the appropriate FBI field office when these individuals are scheduled to arrive in their area of responsibility.
Phoenix has drawn the above conclusion from several Phoenix investigations to include captioned investigation and the following investigations: [redacted], a Saudi Arabian national and [redacted] and [redacted].
Investigation of [redacted] was initiated as the result of information provided by [redacted] a source who has provided reliable information in the past. The source reported during April 2000 that [redacted] was a supporter of UBL and [redacted] the AL-MUHJIROUN. [redacted]
Phoenix has identified several associates of [redacted] at [redacted] who arrived at the university around the same time that he did. These individuals are Sunni MusIims who have the same radical fundamentalists views as [redacted]. They come from [redacted] associates are: [redacted] a [redacted] is enrolled in the [redacted] is enrolled in the [redacted] is enrolled in the [redacted] is enrolled in the [redacted] .
The above individuals are involved with [redacted] and regularly participate in meetings with him in [redacted] Arizona.
FBIHQ, IRS [redacted] , RFU, wrote an analytical paper on the AL-MUHAJIROUN, dated 11/09/1999, in support of FBINY investigation captioned: [redacted] IRS [redacted] s research paper was gleaned from IRS [redacted] s research papers.
The AL-MUHAJIROUN, which in English means THE EMIGRANTS, is a Sunni Muslim fundamentalist organization based in the United Kingdom. The organization’s spiritual leader is SHEIKH OMAR BAKRI MOHAMMED FOSTOK. The organization is dedicated to the overthrow of Western society. British officials have reported that FOSTOK first came to their attention during the Gulf War after calling for the assassination of British Prime Minister John Major. FOSTOK has connections to UBL, JAMMAT AL-MUSLIMIAN (JM), HAMMAS, HIZBALLAH and the ALGERIAN SALVATION FRONT.
FOSTOK has made several controversial statements to the press. For example, he stated in public interviews that the bombings of the United States Embassies in Africa were “legitimate targets.”
FOSTOK, while representing the AL-MUHAJIROUN, signed a fatwa (religious decree) during February 1998 which stated the following:
“ The Fatwa is jihad against the U.S. and British government, armies, interest, airports (emphasis added by FBI Phoenix), and instructions and it has been given because of the U.S. and British aggression against Muslims and the Muslim land of Iraq…we…confirm that the only Islamic Fatwa against this explicit aggression is Jihad. Therefore the message for the British governments or any other government of non-Muslim countries is to stay away from Iraq, Palestine, Pakistan, Arabia, etc…or face full scale ware of Jihad which it is the responsibility and the duty of every Muslim around the world to participate in…We…call upon …Muslims around the world including Muslims in the USA and in Britain to confront by all means whether verbally, financially, politically or militarily the U.S. and British aggression and do their Islamic duty in relieving the Iraqi people from unjust sanctions.”
[redacted] was interviewed by FBI Phoenix on [redacted] 2000 and [redacted] 2000. On [redacted] 2000, interviewing Agents observed photocopied photographs of UBL, IBM KHATTAB and wounded Chechnyan Mujahadin tacked to his livingroom wall. [redacted]
Phoenix investigation of [redacted] was predicated upon information received during [redacted].
According to [redacted] a [redacted] and [redacted] .
On 06 [redacted] 2001, the [redacted] arrested two individuals who admitted under interrogation to being members of UBL’s AL-QA’IDA organization. Evidence was developed demonstrating that these individuals were planning an operation to bomb the U.S. Embassy and U.S. Military forces in Saudi Arabia. A [redacted] passport [redacted] in the name of [redacted] within their possession [redacted] address and could be a relative.
Phoenix has not been able to show a direct association between [redacted] and [redacted] had departed the U.S. prior to [redacted]’s arrival. However, both [redacted] and [redacted] have associated with the [redacted] Arizona and it is highly probable that they know people in common.
Investigations of [redacted] and [redacted] were predicated on information received from [redacted] demonstrating that both subjects were involved with [redacted] activity. Both individuals also have association(s) with individuals associated with [redacted] who lived in Phoenix from the mid 1990s – 1997 left the United States after graduating from [redacted] has been identified as a friend of both [redacted] and [redacted] a known supporter of the [redacted]. Phoenix has not developed any information linking these [redacted] with the other subjects referenced in this communication.
Phoenix believes that it is more than a coincidence that subjects who are supporters of UBL are attending civil aviation universities/colleges in the State of Arizona. As receiving offices are aware, Phoenix has had significant UBL associates/operatives living in the State of Arizona and conducting activity in support of UBL. WADIB EL-HAGE, a UBL lieutenant recently convicted for his role in the 1998 bombings of U.S. Embassies in Africa, lived in Tucson, Arizona for several years during the l980s. ESSAM AL-RIDI, a personal pilot for UBL, traveled to Tucson, Arizona during 1993 at the direction of AL-HAGE to procure a T-39 jet aircraft for UBL’s personal use. [redacted]
Phoenix believes that it is highly probable that UBL has an established support network in place in Arizona. This network was most likely established during the time period that EL-HAGE lived in Arizona. This information is being provided to receiving offices for information, analysis, and comments.
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You cherry-pick, and quote-mine things like this, to come up with moronic nonsense.

You make up junk, will not be earning a Pulitzer for your failure.
 
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beachnut said:
You cherry-pick, and quote-mine things like this, to come up with moronic nonsense.

You make up junk, will not be earning a Pulitzer for your failure.
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Do you know the meaning? I quote the point and give the source to prove I'm not quote mining. Quote mining is what you do as can be shown by post 47....

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7813592&postcount=47

Where you said this(which is a lie)....

beachnut said:
The VP is part of the NCA, who said he was not part of the chain?! That will not stop 911 truth nonsense.
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And then "quote mined" this as support....

Quote:
Both movement of troops and execution of military action must be directed by the NCA;by law, no one else in the chain of command has the authority to take such action except in self-defense.
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But didn't leave your source. Here is the source you quote mined from to support your lie that the NCA includes the VP.....

a. National Command Authorities (NCA)

(1) Constitutionally, the ultimate authority and responsibility for the national defense rests with the President.

(2) Since passage of the National Security Act of 1947, the President has used his Secretary of Defense as his principal assistant in all matters relating to the Department of Defense. The Secretary is responsible for the effective, efficient, and economical operation of the Department of Defense, and he has statutory authority, direction, and control over the military departments.

(3) The National Command Authorities (NCA) are the President and Secretary of Defense or persons acting lawfully in their stead. The term NCA is used to signify constitutional authority to direct the Armed Forces in their execution of military action. Both movement of troops and execution of military action must be directed by the NCA; by law, no one else in the chain of command has the authority to take such action except in self-defense.
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http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/dod/docs/pub1_97/Chap2.html

You quote mined. The source shows you lied.

The practice of quoting out of context, sometimes referred to as "contextomy" or "quote mining", is a logical fallacy and a type of false attribution in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_quoting_out_of_context

You are embarrassing. You'll probably try and claim the self defense part means you can kill civilians when told negative clearance to shoot. They didn't pass on Cheney's order because he was not authorized to give it. This is a fact.; It happened. Deal with it. The VP is not part of the NCA.

3.1. National Command Authorities (NCA). The NCA consists only of the
President and the Secretary of Defense or their duly deputized alternates or
successors. The chain of command runs from the President to the Secretary of
Defense and through the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the Commanders of the Unified and
Specified Commands.
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http://biotech.law.lsu.edu/blaw/dodd/corres/pdf2/d510030p.pdf

Most striking of all is the revelation that an order by Vice President Dick Cheney was ignored by the military, which saw his order to shoot down aircraft as outside the chain of command. Instead of acknowledging the order to shoot down civilian aircraft and carrying it out, NORAD ordered fighters to confirm aircraft tail numbers first and report back for further instructions
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http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/09/08/military-officials-ignored-cheneys-911-shoot-down-order/
 
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jimd3100 said:
... You are embarrassing.
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You are the one distracted by tangential junk, attacking, posting nonsense, because you can't support your failed "stand-down".

What happen to your Pulitzer Prize winning stand-down stuff? lol, you have to waste time, quibbling, because you have nothing to support your moronic claim.

What happen to your Pulitzer?
Right, it was based on quote-mined, cherry-picked, failed logic. No Pulitzer.

your Cheney said shoot-down, means there was a stand-down is the dumbest claim made about 911
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(3) The National Command Authorities (NCA) are the President and Secretary of Defense or persons acting lawfully in their stead. The term NCA is used to signify constitutional authority to direct the Armed Forces in their execution of military action. Both movement of troops and execution of military action must be directed by the NCA; by law, no one else in the chain of command has the authority to take such action except in self-defense.
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Now you just have to show that was unlawful for the President to direct the vice president to relay a command in his stead.
 
I don't think somebody whose entire case is simply one big fat argument from personal incredulity should be calling people embarrassing.

Just sayin'
 
jimd3100 said:
Do you know the meaning [of quote-mining]?...
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hmmmmm...funny you bring it up...

jimd3100 said:
...I quote the point and give the source to prove I'm not quote mining. Quote mining is what you do as can be shown by post 47....
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jimd3100 said:
Like I said...
Quote:
"Prior to 9/11, it was understood that an order to shoot down a commercial aircraft would have to be issued by the National Command Authority (a phrase used to describe the president and secretary of defense)."
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Reactor drone said:
(3) The National Command Authorities (NCA) are the President and Secretary of Defense or persons acting lawfully in their stead. The term NCA is used to signify constitutional authority to direct the Armed Forces in their execution of military action. Both movement of troops and execution of military action must be directed by the NCA; by law, no one else in the chain of command has the authority to take such action except in self-defense.
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Now you just have to show that was unlawful for the President to direct the vice president to relay a command in his stead.
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jimd, save everyone the touble next time and just post a picture of you kicking yourself in the face.
 
Sabretooth said:
jimd, save everyone the touble next time and just post a picture of you kicking yourself in the face.
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How 'bout punching? :D

123864eea13f439c78.gif
 
Sabretooth said:
jimd, save everyone the touble next time and just post a picture of you kicking yourself in the face.
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That's it. I'm busted. Actually by "in their stead", they really meant "twinstead". I'm the one who gave the shoot down order. :o
 
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