Rick Santorum is an idiot, a bigot, and morally inconsistent...

Pardalis said:
Yes, and you just happened to mention them for no reason.
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No. Not at all. Wait, let me restate that, Oh hell no!

Santorum is immoral. Religion doesn't obviate odious and pernicious beliefs. Make no mistake about it, Santorum's views are very harmful to people. That is the very definition of immoral. Slapping the religion label on it doesn't make it any better. I'm sorry but this is where I have to take a stand. I resent the BS nonsense that there is anything wrong with gays and lesbians. That's evil.
 
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Yes yes, you just mentioned Santorum and the KKK in the same sentence for no reason other than for effect.

Nice job. You're as much as a propagandist as any pundit. That'll sure help raise the level of political discourse in your country.

Leftysergeant's got competition.
 
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Pardalis said:
Yes yes, you just mentioned Santorum and the KKK in the same sentence for no reason other than for effect.

Nice job. You're as much as a propagandist as any pundit.
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No. Absolutely no. Santorum's beliefs harms people. The lives of gays and lesbians are anachronistic beliefs. Again, let me restate, bronze age beliefs. This is the 21st century. Why is this is a point that is vaunted to a high office issue.

No, I won't apologize. The KKK is immoral. Most reasonable people recognize that. If we can't recognize that targeting innocent people to demonize them is an immoral thing then there is something wrong with us.
 
RandFan said:
No, I won't apologize. The KKK is immoral. Most reasonable people recognize that.
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Well done, now that you've equated Santorum with a Nazi group no one will dare challenge your views.

Santorum= Nazis
Nazis = bad
therefore anyone who defends Santorum is a Nazi apologist.

Congratulations, you've become a pro at dishonest debating.
 
Pardalis said:
Well done, now that you've equated Santorum with a Nazi group no one will dare challenge your views.

Santorum= Nazis
Nazis = bad
therefore anyone who defends Santorum is a Nazi apologist.

Congratulations, you've become a pro at dishonest debating.
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No. Making the claim that Santorum is is moral is as silly and absurd as claiming that the KKK is moral FOR the very same reason.

I'm proud to stand by that. :)
 
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Pardalis said:
Well done, now that you've equated Santorum with a Nazi group no one will dare challenge your views.

Santorum= Nazis
Nazis = bad
therefore anyone who defends Santorum is a Nazi apologist.

Congratulations, you've become a pro at dishonest debating.
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That's not what the claim was, that's not how Randfan used that argument, and it appears that you're attacking a straw man.
 
So I guess that makes the majority of Muslims immoral too, since they think the same thing about homosexuality.

So that makes Santorum, the KKK, Muslims and Al Qaeda. Anyone else?
 
Pardalis said:
So I guess that makes the majority of Muslims immoral too, since they think the same thing about homosexuality.
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Those who try to take away rights of gays and lesbians? Damn straight it does. Some people believe that blacks are sub human. That's immoral in the 21st century.

I'm not moving off of that one. Look, let me make it clear, if you think that there is something wrong with gays and lesbians then **** you. I can tolerate your prejudice and ignorance if you keep it to yourself. If you want to take away the rights of fellow Americans as Santorum is on record as saying, then, as I said, **** you.
 
fuelair said:
I agree! But he does have a very apt last name!! Describes him perfectly - now THAT is a cool coincidence!!:D:D:D:D
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It's not a coincidence, his hurtful and bigoted statements resulted in people Google bombing him.
 
RandFan said:
I can tolerate your prejudice and ignorance if you keep it to yourself. If you want to take away the rights of fellow Americans as Santorum is on record as saying, then, as I said, **** you.
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You won't change these people's minds by yelling at them and insulting them and comparing them to violent groups that have nothing to do with them.

There is such a thing as diplomacy, and civil debate.

By being confrontational and abusive with them you will most likely have the adverse effect of making them hold their ground even more firmly and become even more bigotted.

ETA: oh, and the poop jokes about his name, that sure isn't helping either.
 
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Pardalis said:
You won't change these people's minds by yelling at them and insulting them and comparing them to violent groups that have nothing to do with them.

There is such a thing as diplomacy, and civil debate.

By being confrontational and abusive with them you will most likely have the adverse effect of making them hold their ground even more firmly and become even more bigotted.
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I tire of this kind of argument. Yes, there is a percentage of the population that needs to be handled with kid gloves. This is the argument I made to Randi in 2002. But I'm not there anymore. Stand up for morality and decency. Don't baby racists or bigots. Call them for what they are. And, BTW, I don't give a damn about changing their minds. It's not likely anyway. Target those on the fence or who aren't dogmatic.

No, I'm happy to state the truth.
 
RandFan said:
I tire of this kind of argument. Yes, there is a percentage of the population that needs to be handled with kid gloves. This is the argument I made to Randi in 2002. But I'm not there anymore. Stand up for morality and decency. Don't baby racists or bigots. Call them for what they are. And, BTW, I don't give a damn about changing their minds. It's not likely anyway. Target those on the fence or who aren't dogmatic.

No, I'm happy to state the truth.
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Santorum isn't a violent man, he is not advocating violence against any group. The KKK and Al Qaeda are unwanted parasites that should be fought against, but not those regular folks like Santorum. He surely has misguided and ignorant ideas about human sexuality and the nature of the universe, but he seems to me like a loving family man.

You don't want to make these people your enemy because there are alot of them and you have to share a country with them.
 
Pardalis said:
You won't change these people's minds by yelling at them and insulting them and comparing them to violent groups that have nothing to do with them.

There is such a thing as diplomacy, and civil debate.

By being confrontational and abusive with them you will most likely have the adverse effect of making them hold their ground even more firmly and become even more bigotted.

ETA: oh, and the poop jokes about his name, that sure isn't helping either.
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Well at least this is advancement from your original position that there shouldn't be any public debate in the first place, just don't vote for them.
 
tyr_13 said:
Well at least this is advancement from your original position that there shouldn't be any public debate in the first place, just don't vote for them.
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I didn't say there shouldn't be any debate. Calling people "idiots" and "bigots" is not debating, it's mudslinging.
 
Pardalis said:
Comparing him to the KKK is a bit much, since alot of Orthodox Jews and Muslims hold the same views on homosexuality.
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Whatever. He would reshape this country more to the liking of the KKKrap than would Obama or Hunstman. They reason in the same way, and have as tenuous a grip on reality.
 
Pardalis said:
Santorum isn't a violent man, he is not advocating violence against any group. The KKK and Al Qaeda are unwanted parasites that should be fought against, but not those regular folks like Santorum. He surely has misguided and ignorant ideas about human sexuality and the nature of the universe, but he seems to me like a loving family man.

You don't want to make these people your enemy because there are alot of them and you have to share a country with them.
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I think this is where you're missing the point. Randfan isn't saying that Santorum is like the KKK in all ways but rather in the very specific way he laid out. Violent isn't the only way someone can be wrong. Violence isn't the only reason to speak out against a group or person advocating other bad ideas. Someone can be a peaceful, family loving man and still advance ideas as wrong and hateful as the KKK. The KKK isn't wrong only because they are violent.

In the hateful and wrong policy Santorum advocates, he is my enemy. He made himself my enemy, and I made myself his enemy in that regard. 'Enemy' doesn't always have to be an absolute status.
 
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Pardalis said:
I didn't say there shouldn't be any debate. Calling people "idiots" and "bigots" is not debating, it's mudslinging.
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Kinda like calling OWS occutards? Did you come to THEIR defense. At least it's arguable that the basis for calling OWS "occutards" was based on anecdote evidence. Calling Santorum an idiot and a bigot only targets him and is based on solid evidence. I'm sorry but I have no tears to shed. Santorum is a very hurtful and hateful bigot who has targeted decent and moral people to demonize for political purposes.
 
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