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What "powers" do the "euroskeptics" want back?

So Call Me has managed to negotiate the UK not taking part in the bailout. Apparently his list of demands for participation were long and extraordinary ans essentially could never be agreed to.

The Tobin tax may have been a very bad idea for the City of London but I fear that 10% of GDP (the finance industry) has caused Call Me to make a decision which will have a profound impact on the rest of the economy by very much putting us on the back foot in Europe.
 
So Call Me has managed to negotiate the UK not taking part in the bailout. Apparently his list of demands for participation were long and extraordinary ans essentially could never be agreed to.

The Tobin tax may have been a very bad idea for the City of London but I fear that 10% of GDP (the finance industry) has caused Call Me to make a decision which will have a profound impact on the rest of the economy by very much putting us on the back foot in Europe.

One does have to wonder if he would have been as quick to use "the veto" if it was on behalf of any other sector of the British economy?

There is also this rather strange double standards in regards to the "city", that sector is what got us into this mess to begin with so why do we want to remain so dependent upon it. I thought we were going to "rebalance the economy"?
 
On this topic - I wonder how many of the countries that have apparently agreed to the centralisation of their finances will still have to get it through their governments? I suspect there will be at least a few countries that will require some form of plebiscite before the new treaty will be enacted by their governments.
 
Rather than starting a new thread - what are folks serious views about the "no"?

From what I understand I think Cameron made the right call, obviously that's from a UK perspective. The reason for needing the tighter financial cooperation agreement is because of the Euro not because of the EU so it should be something that the countries that use the Euro should deal with rather than the EU.



(And equally obviously if the eruo collapses and we are all up the creek without a paddle I reserve the right to blame Cameron for his stupid decision.)
 
Rather than starting a new thread - what are folks serious views about the "no"?

From what I understand I think Cameron made the right call, obviously that's from a UK perspective. The reason for needing the tighter financial cooperation agreement is because of the Euro not because of the EU so it should be something that the countries that use the Euro should deal with rather than the EU.



(And equally obviously if the eruo collapses and we are all up the creek without a paddle I reserve the right to blame Cameron for his stupid decision.)

Well, many britains seem to be cheering to that possibility.
 
I have difficulty in seeing what a centralized European government can do for its member countries that the countries governments can't do for themselves.

If the EU had a strong financial base and was able to protect its weaker members from trouble there might be a case to be made. However, the EU has been totally ineffective in this regard.
 
Not directly a power but more of an implementation issue: legislation that gets trounced in the national parlaments get sent to the EU parliament where it gets the approval and the national states have to implement it. That is what happened for example with the law that prohibits young looking adults from shooting porn in the EU and that criminalized teens for shooting nude photos of themselves.
 
One does have to wonder if he would have been as quick to use "the veto" if it was on behalf of any other sector of the British economy?

Sure. Oil. Pharmaceuticals just possibly.
 
For my part, I have simply come to the point that I see no benefit for us (Sweden) being in the EU. What exactly do we gain from it? And whatever the gain, does it really make up for all the disadvantages of being a member?
 
For my part, I have simply come to the point that I see no benefit for us (Sweden) being in the EU. What exactly do we gain from it? And whatever the gain, does it really make up for all the disadvantages of being a member?

What are the disadvantages. I know there can be niggles from paperwork and so on but that would exist in any trading with countries so I don't see it as anything inherently or uniquely bad about the EU.
 
What are the disadvantages. I know there can be niggles from paperwork and so on but that would exist in any trading with countries so I don't see it as anything inherently or uniquely bad about the EU.

A few things I don't like with the EU:

1. The CAP, which takes half the budget!

2. Crazy religious countries who want religious references in legal documents.

3. The zeal to protect products of southern Europe (did you know that only Greek-produced manufactured feta is allowed to be called feta by EU law?) while the EU considered Swedish farmers selling locally produced food as labelled "locally produced" to be dubious.

4. Various ridiculous things like the parliament moving every month.

5. The influence of special interests.

#1 and #3 gives the impression that the EU is some sort of interest club for farmers in southern Europe who can't compete in the global economy.

Let's turn it around: Why should we be part of the EU? The argument is usually that we need to influence what's going on there since it affects us. This is bollocks. First, what the US does influences us too (they are important for trade). Should we become an American state in order to influence what's going on there? Secondly, our influence in the EU is about as loud as a fart in space. Sweden's position is that the CAP should be reduced and eventually eliminated. Does it look like that's going to happen anytime soon?

Norway is not part of the EU (and its public opinion firmly opposed to joining) just EFTA, and they are doing fine, even without the (non-existing) "influence" they would supposedly gain. I'm sure we would too. It's not like we were a poor underdeveloped country before EU membership.
 
A few things I don't like with the EU:

1. The CAP, which takes half the budget!

Ah yes - good point.

2. Crazy religious countries who want religious references in legal documents.

Don't know what this is?


3. The zeal to protect products of southern Europe (did you know that only Greek-produced manufactured feta is allowed to be called feta by EU law?) while the EU considered Swedish farmers selling locally produced food as labelled "locally produced" to be dubious.

The protected name stuff I'm actually all for.

4. Various ridiculous things like the parliament moving every month.

I agree with you on this - utterly stupid.
5. The influence of special interests.

Nothing unique to the EU.
#1 and #3 gives the impression that the EU is some sort of interest club for farmers in southern Europe who can't compete in the global economy.

Disagree with that CAP is for all the countries as are geographically/name protected stuff.

Let's turn it around: Why should we be part of the EU? The argument is usually that we need to influence what's going on there since it affects us. This is bollocks. First, what the US does influences us too (they are important for trade). Should we become an American state in order to influence what's going on there? Secondly, our influence in the EU is about as loud as a fart in space. Sweden's position is that the CAP should be reduced and eventually eliminated. Does it look like that's going to happen anytime soon?

I don't know enough to comment on Sweden's trade relations to have an informed opinion but from a UK perspective it does seem sensible and a lot more productive to have a very large single market on our doorstep.
Norway is not part of the EU (and its public opinion firmly opposed to joining) just EFTA, and they are doing fine, even without the (non-existing) "influence" they would supposedly gain. I'm sure we would too. It's not like we were a poor underdeveloped country before EU membership.

How much oil do you have? ;)
 
So Call Me has managed to negotiate the UK not taking part in the bailout. Apparently his list of demands for participation were long and extraordinary ans essentially could never be agreed to.

The Tobin tax may have been a very bad idea for the City of London
It's doubtful that agreeing to change the Lisbon treaty would have eventually somehow imposed a financial transaction tax on the UK. And if the UK chose not to implement one--just like now--it is rather unlikely that anyone else in the Euro-17 would either. Unfortunately for Chancellor Merkel, her idea only flies if everybody does it, and the incentive to free-ride is quite large and there isn't a world government (and the EC does not have the power to be one). There's a reason why taxes usually fall on relatively immobile payments within a national government's control, and not foreign exchange trades and the like.

Aside from that, the idea that exceptions that suit national interests should happen to EU laws is a poor one. Germany could seek similar protection for its auto makers, France for its champagne growers, Belgium for its chocolatiers, etc. There is little point in an EU if it is overly influenced by national interests, as there is little point in national governments if they are overly hijacked by local interests, or local government routinely captured by individualistic ones.

but I fear that 10% of GDP (the finance industry) has caused Call Me to make a decision which will have a profound impact on the rest of the economy by very much putting us on the back foot in Europe.
The UK has been on a separate trajectory to the Euro-17, and the EMU-hopefuls before then, since approximately forever. The Brown/Ballls decision not to join the euro in 2003 was also fraught with risks that the UK would be consigned to the slow lane, or back foot. But I suspect almost nobody in the UK believes that today.

One does have to wonder if he would have been as quick to use "the veto" if it was on behalf of any other sector of the British economy?
I think the cover story of protecting the financial sector is almost surely a red herring, and that the real reason Cameron cannot do a Lisbon treaty change is that the coalition has pre-committed to a referendum for any fundamental change to the relationship with the EU, and it is pretty hard to argue that a treaty change isn't that. And the referendum would very likely be lost because the UK electorate is generally more euro-sceptic than the average of its politicians.

There is also this rather strange double standards in regards to the "city", that sector is what got us into this mess to begin with so why do we want to remain so dependent upon it. I thought we were going to "rebalance the economy"?
Well it would better to do that by reforming the rest of the economy than by just shrinking finance. But see above about this being a red-herring.

It appears to have been a poor cover of a reason, and it seems clear to me that France and Germany would not accede to same/greater City of London dominance unless the UK had them over a barrel, which it didn't. I would not have thought it was all that great a story for the home audience either since plenty of people think that the city is overpaid and/or "got us into this mess to begin with"

On this topic - I wonder how many of the countries that have apparently agreed to the centralisation of their finances will still have to get it through their governments?
All of them
I suspect there will be at least a few countries that will require some form of plebiscite before the new treaty will be enacted by their governments.
IIRC none of the Euro-17 have to do that. Possibly Ireland but they would say yes.
 
Rather than starting a new thread - what are folks serious views about the "no"?

From what I understand I think Cameron made the right call, obviously that's from a UK perspective.
As already posted, I think Cameron was bound by the looming necessity of a UK referendum if the veto had not been used, and that other "national interests" were a fig-leaf.
We will amend the 1972 European Communities Act so that any proposed future treaty that transferred areas of power, or competences, would be subject to a referendum on that treaty – a ‘referendum lock’

Coalition Agreement, section 13

If it were not for the referendum lock, I think that the UK should have gone along with this. It could still oppose a financial transaction tax if it wanted to, which is not (I don't think) part of the deal

The reason for needing the tighter financial cooperation agreement is because of the Euro not because of the EU so it should be something that the countries that use the Euro should deal with rather than the EU.
The Euro-17 would still deal with it--it does not affect UK budget plans/scrutiny at all. But it supposedly has more teeth if enshrined in the treaty which is why Germany wanted it that way. I don't think it makes much difference.

I do not think that the UK electorate will be overly swayed by the "slow lane" "isolated" part that is all over the media, and that it will probably damage Cameron much less than you would think from the initial reaction in the press.
 
Rather than starting a new thread - what are folks serious views about the "no"?

From what I understand I think Cameron made the right call, obviously that's from a UK perspective. The reason for needing the tighter financial cooperation agreement is because of the Euro not because of the EU so it should be something that the countries that use the Euro should deal with rather than the EU.



(And equally obviously if the eruo collapses and we are all up the creek without a paddle I reserve the right to blame Cameron for his stupid decision.)

I'm baffled too.

In politics, I have two radically opposed agendas.
First , I feel the only government worth having is a global government, so as European Federation might be seen as a step in that direction and this looks very like a step towards federation, I should be very annoyed with Dave.
But I'm not sure that I am, because my other view is that politicians are there to work in the interests of the people who put them there. While world government may be in the interests of our grandchildren, it does little for the average Brit here and now.
Nobody elected Dave to be a Eurofederalist.
He was elected (insofar as he was elected at all) to run a UK gov. I think that's what he thought he was doing. Insofar as I understand the issues in the case, I think he made the only decision he could.
That's not to say it's the right decision. Only time gives the perspective to decide that.


ETA- One ps. The media of late has delighted in announcing the imminent collapse of everything - unless an agreement can be reached at the next in an endless chain of meetings of someone or other. Immediately after the meeting, they announce the glorious recovery.
Greece accepts a package (DHL?) and suddenly, all is olives and goat's cheese.
Bollocks.
The meeting is the end of the beginning. The question remains- will any of these packages have the desired effect, or will everyone actually have to roll their sleeves up and start shovelling?
 
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my other view is that politicians are there to work in the interests of the people who put them there. [ . . . ] Nobody elected Dave to be a Eurofederalist. He was elected (insofar as he was elected at all) to run a UK gov.

Actually he was elected by voters in Witney, Oxford to represent them in the house of commons. The rest of the public didn't even have him on their ballot paper. So by your principle he probably shouldn't go to Brussells at all.
 

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