Has there ever been a Conspiracy Theory that was in fact true?

Robert Prey said:
If you want a response, one question at a time or go bye-bye. When the student is ready, the teacher appears.
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Why on earth should anybody humour you when you wont even supply evidence for questions like that?

Why should anybody feel the need to "go bye-bye" because you can't answer questions?

Please explain why, even if a whole slew of questions are asked at once, you can not simply answer them one at a time? What constraint is there that prevents you answering the questions? Why do the questions, or why should the questions, be asked one at a time?


And who in the name of all that is holy would consider themselves to be the teacher, if they can not answer simple questions?
 
Robrob said:
Well to be fair, those are primarily simple conspiracies (two or more persons agreeing to commit an illegal act). You can't equate them to the (claimed) 9/11, JFK, OJ, etc... Was your original intent of this topic to identify conspiracies like kidnapping, bank robbery, drug distribution, etc... or the CT that are debated here daily?

The Penn State sex scandal didn't require an Illuminati, Shadow Government, or Gnomes of Zurich. It didn't require enormously complex plans. It didn't involve scapegoats. Etc...
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Your definition and mine differ, we can do that.

Ruby Ridge involved entrapment by the ATF to start the mess. In the event, an FBI sharpshooter violated basic firearms safety and the (horrible, unconsitutional) ROI and killed an unarmed woman holding a 10 month old infant. He was charged with manslaughter in Idaho but the case was moved to federal court where it was dismissed on grounds of soverign immunity.

Penn State fired 3 senior people who facilitated the coverup over a 9 year period (at least) and children continued to be abused. (reportedly)
 
GregHouseMD said:
Your definition and mine differ, we can do that.
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I get that and you are accurately describing the legal definition of a "conspiracy" however those sorts of mundane criminal activities are an order of magnitude different from the CT regularly claimed here, 9/11, JFK, Moon Landing, etc...

There's no debate conspiracies exist, that's why there are laws about them. The debate is about the SciFi CT involving Illuminati, Ninjas, high tech and scapegoats.

There are terrorist plots in the world, there just aren't terrorist plots like on "24."
 
There are terrorist plots in the world, there just aren't terrorist plots like on "24."
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Interesting. 24 didn't involve the Illuminati or aliens so according to some here, no conspiracies.

Seems like when someone shows a conspiracy that came true, others downplay as not sufficient, but things like MK-Ultra are as big a conspiracy theory as covering up alien encounters though the alien thing would be more significant.

As far as 9/11, what do some mean by conspiracy theory? That Bush did it? Then not so likely. That there was a 24-style cover-up because some conspiratorial elements or agents within the US government helped facilitate it?

Believe it or not, that's entirely feasible and entirely likely the powers that be would think this is not something we can have come out for the good of the nation and international affairs.
 
Gazpacho said:
The existence of the Trilateral Commission, and of its project to halt radical political movements around the world and restore a kind of liberal-authoritarian stability, are documented facts of history. People might be forgiven in the 1970s for not having easy access to those documents, but today you can download them from the Commission's own web site so there's really no excuse.
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Good point. How is it a conspiracy theory when the globalists openly call for world government.

On Waco, that is likely a good candidate for a legit, true conspiracy theory. it appears Reno Ok'ed or ordered spraying 9 times the lethal dosage for indoors of CS gas. Say what you want but that looks awfully close to murder and we're talking women and children here. Then, it looks like they also fired flash-bang devices which could easily set the "gas", really I think it's a powder, ablaze.

The facts suggest we all watched the federal government murder a bunch of people they didn't like. Even if you wanted to arrest Koresh and others and think they are killers, what excuse is there for killing the children?
 
Patrick1000 said:
The Courageous Italian Judge Felice Casson Was Responsible for the uncovering of "Gladio", the Italian Secret Army. Once Casson got the goods on those naughty naughty naughty little boys, then the Italian Prime Minister, Giulio Andreotti had to say something, confess in a sense. French President Francois Mitterrand back peddled furiously, but to no avail. He claimed, "When I arrived, I didn't have much left to dissolve. There only remained a few remnants, of which I learned the existence with some surprise because everyone had forgotten about them." To his credit, Andriotti called Mitterrand a coward in so many words for not being man enough if not to admit to his own complicity, which Mitterrand was, COMPLICITOUS, to at least to acknowledge the French Secret Army's robust activities. It all fell like a house of cards after that, and things lead right to our front door. After all, when it comes to NATO, we, the Americans, are the big Cheetos, ain't we?


So if you want a name LSSBB, there really is only one, the Great Italian judge, Felice Casson. The only guy both smart and brave enough to pull it off, expose the thing. Mind boggling really, one dude vs NATO! Incredibile!!!

I am an American citizen, 2nd generation, but ethnically and culturally Sicilian to some degree. I have many friends and a large family in Sicily. My friends and family revere Casson, as do many Italians, more for his courage than anything else. He is like Giovanni Falcone, the magistrate from Palermo who was so successful in prosecuting Mafia guys in the Maxi Trials, and got blown up for it along with his family. People love these guys, admire their courage.

One little Italian judge, showed NATO where they could stick it, right up their chicken _ _ _ _ butts. BEAUTIFUL!!!! BRAVO CASSON, BRAVO!!!!!!!

So there Greg, the NATO SECRET ARMY CONSPIRACY, a conspiracy that endured from 1945 through 1990, 45 years, with activities that included the murdering of innocent people, including children, to create fear in the hearts of Europeans so US military interests could park nukes in the Europeans' front yards. Pretty sick, ain't it?

And if you have any question, wondering if it really could be true, that heinously sick, it sounds so awful after all, don't hesitate to ask the Prime Minister of Italy, Andreotti. He'll confirm every atrocity for you, not to mention the President of France, Mitterrand, who said sure it went on, but he was late to the party so he won't be able to give you much in the way of details Greg..........
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Hadn't heard of this. Thanks. Black ops are real, on-going and frequent or were for a long time (likely still but don't have any personal knowledge). They are often dismissed as conspiracy theories but such conspiracies are actually part of the fabric of history and something people need to accept and understand as not some wacko concept but how things get done sometimes.
 
randman said:
Good point. How is it a conspiracy theory when the globalists openly call for world government.
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It's a conspiracy theory because the press chose not to report on it, at a time when there weren't many ways to get around press silence. Also because mentioning the Commission and its goals did and still does carry the stigma of being judged a loon.
 
Gazpacho said:
It's a conspiracy theory because the press chose not to report on it, at a time when there weren't many ways to get around press silence. Also because mentioning the Commission and its goals did and still does carry the stigma of being judged a loon.
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You are talking about the the state-sponsored clandestine anti-communist activists in Europe? Right?

Part of their problem with its 'conspiracy' status has to do with the causal chain that's being referred to here as Operation Gladio. If we are to believe the great Wiki, which we all do, Gladio was a security operation that originated with NATO. This does not mean that the orders that resulted in the Bologna Massacre came directly from Washington or a CIA office somewhere.

A more complete description of these connections makes it seem more accurate that Gladio set off a series of events that resulted in anti-communist politicians, public officials, business leaders, and criminal personalities being able to unite. Much of this was done through the auspices of the P2. There would be little doubt that the atmosphere of terror and the determination with which the left-wing was persecuted following the War was made possible by Gladio.

And this is where it becomes a conspiracy theory, if you want to go there. Many of the perpetrators of the Bologna Massacre have been arrested and tried. It's not a mystery who was behind this attack and what their motives were. While it is correct to blame the USA for creating the conditions where something like this could happen, connecting the attack in Bologna to the USA is not credible.

My point is that it's not clear what was being kept secret in this so-called conspiracy. We have a number of options.
1.That Operation Gladio ever happened. This would be a secret, as would many other secret security operations all around the world. Their existence, while distasteful would not be all that mysterious if they occurred, as I said earlier, in a place full of White people that many here have visited. Besides, it was not Operation Gladio that directly killed all those people.
2. The P2 Masonic Lodge. Yes, this would be a conspiracy and perhaps even a conspiracy theory, in some very loose sense. There were many high-level leaders of Italian society who secretly planned to reshape their country with violence. It appears that very few people outside their group knew of this plan. I am unaware of rumours about P2 that circulated in Italian society at the time. I mean, I don't know if there were rumours that were discounted as 'conspiracy theory' or if, in fact, it really was a secret.
3. The Nuclei Armati Rivoluzionari. This is the group that actually carried out the attacks, or at least have been sentenced for doing so. These are bad, bad guys. But their role in this and a lot of other bad things was only as secret as any criminal conspiracy.

Just to sum up, there was a American-backed plan to prepare Italians to fight the communists implemented after WWII. In the chaos that followed the War, elements involved in this got way out of control and threatened to destabilize Italy's emerging democracy. A lot of this happened without the knowledge of the police or uninvolved elements of Italian society. It is not clear to me whether or not rumours of this were known. And as much as they were known, did anyone discount them or were they viewed as credible concerns about criminals who had infiltrated Italian government but were yet to be named? While I find this a very disturbing part of Western history, it is not clear to me what the conspiracy is, outside of the individual conspiracies that made up different crimes lumped together. I am completely unable to upstand how the term 'conspiracy theory' could be used in this context.
 
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Patrick1000 said:
So if you want a name LSSBB, there really is only one, the Great Italian judge, Felice Casson. The only guy both smart and brave enough to pull it off, expose the thing. Mind boggling really, one dude vs NATO! Incredibile!!!
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Actually, when I asked "which proud, tireless and intrepid CT hero", the CT stood for Conspiracy Theorist. Felice Casson uncovered Gladio as part of a criminal investigation, I don't see where he was a Conspiracy Theorist in this case.
 
A conspiracy theory involving The Penn State Sex Scandal would be that the disappearance of D.A. Ray Gricar in '05 was due to him knowing too much, yet declining to prosecute. So they got to him twice! Once to get him to not prosecute, then disappeared him when they thought he might reconsider!

Also maybe we shouldn't call it a "sex scandal", it's more of a child rape scandal. I mean it wasn't swingers parties or call girls, it was child abuse.
 
randman said:
Interesting. 24 didn't involve the Illuminati or aliens so according to some here, no conspiracies.
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You do know "24" is a TV show, right?

Seems like when someone shows a conspiracy that came true, others downplay as not sufficient, but things like MK-Ultra are as big a conspiracy theory as covering up alien encounters though the alien thing would be more significant.
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MK-ULTRA was unauthorized medical experiments. As a matter of fact, many of them involved volunteers. Once again, who were the scapegoats, where were the ninjas, where was the high tech?

[/uote]As far as 9/11, what do some mean by conspiracy theory? That Bush did it? Then not so likely. That there was a 24-style cover-up because some conspiratorial elements or agents within the US government helped facilitate it? [/quote]

The 9/11 Truther CT is quite disjointed but in essence it involves 1) a secret cabal 2) plotting to blame Muslims 3) while actually destroying government secrets when 4) ninjas placed tons of 5) magic nano-thermite, etc...

randman said:
Hadn't heard of this. Thanks. Black ops are real, on-going and frequent or were for a long time (likely still but don't have any personal knowledge). They are often dismissed as conspiracy theories but such conspiracies are actually part of the fabric of history and something people need to accept and understand as not some wacko concept but how things get done sometimes.
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Still not involving any of the things needed for a classic CT such as 9/11, Moon Landing, JFK, etc...

I find it interesting when asked for examples of real conspiracies the only thing anyone can come up with are ordinary everyday mundane criminal plots, no more nefarious than a bank robbery. No scapegoats, no ninjas, no high tech.
 
GregHouseMD said:
In the recent past, has there ever been a Conspiracy Theory that when it was all said and done, it turned out to have been true, there was a conspiracy and it was exposed.

Of course there was Watergate but that only lasted a few weeks before the house of cards came down.

There was Monica-gate, but that was blown pretty quickly too... (sorry couldn't resist).:)

What else? When in the past 100 years has a deep dark secret been kept from the public to cover the activities of a select few in power?

I'm sure there are older examples but what about more recently, say in the last 40 years?

It has to be major, the US Government covering up a alien spaceship would qualify (if the truth has truly come out) but covering up a Cabinet Official's speeding tickets or extra marital affairs isn't really big enough.

My purpose in asking the question will be answered in a few days after there is some response (if there is any). I don't want to influence input.
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As I recall one of my first posts here was this exact same topic :) Not much came of it.
 
rjh01 said:
Robrob has defined what a CT is. I assume everyone agrees that this definition is reasonable? randman has listed several potential CT that are true. I am not going to go though them all. I will look at just one of them to see how well it meets Robrob's definition of a CT.

testing of STDs on people of color
Here is a link to some information on this issue http://northerntruthseeker.blogspot.com/2010/10/guatemalan-std-testing-was-only-tip-of.html
1) Government participation (federal, state or local).
The link says

by United States I assume they mean Federal Government. So this criteria is met.

2) A post-facto cover up. These experiments were not known about until 2010 by the public. So there was a cover up.

3) A logical and cost effective reason to engage in a complex and long term conspiracy.
The experiment was illegal and was done in the 1940s. It was only exposed last year. The fact that it was illegal means that there was a good reason not to expose this experiment. Long term? I think we can agree that the time between the 1940s to 2010 is long term. So this criteria is met.

All three of Robrob's criteria are met. It does not need people trying to expose a CT for one to exist. If I have made an error please show me using a CT commonly discussed in the CT subforum to show that is a CT and the above is not a CT. Otherwise... need I say any more?
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Just to refer to one. The experiments that you are referring too where known in the 1970's. I read about them then. The most important was the Tuskgee Syphilis study, which was made public in 1972. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment
 
I'd rather keep my Conspracies small 'c' thanks...

A TAFE investigation into the death of a jillaroo student who died after falling from a horse was "not worth the paper it was written on", a NSW coroner has found.
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http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8394508/coroner-blasts-tafe-investigation

To summarize, 18 yr old, killed falling of a horse which bolted. It seems that the horse in question was an ex-race horse that had last raced just over a month before.

The investigation by the body responsible was a whitewash designed to cover up various shortcomings.
 
Graham2001 said:
I'd rather keep my Conspracies small 'c' thanks...



http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8394508/coroner-blasts-tafe-investigation

To summarize, 18 yr old, killed falling of a horse which bolted. It seems that the horse in question was an ex-race horse that had last raced just over a month before.

The investigation by the body responsible was a whitewash designed to cover up various shortcomings.
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First, even in the worst case, this does not rist to the level of "Conspiracy Theory".

Second, where's the evidence of a conspiracy? Even if the news article is taken at face value, incompetence would also explain the circumstances.

Finally, where is the evidence of anyone's alleging a conspiracy that was later proven true?
 
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