• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Muslim Anti-Semitism and the Arab Spring

Western columnists eager to bestow their blessing on the democratic impulses of the Arab Spring are troubled by its darker side, the bigotry, the sexual violence and religious fanaticism. Rather than admit that they may have gotten the Arab Spring wrong, they look at its dark side as an external factor, rather than an internal one.

I think Western columnists may understand that impulses towards freedom don't magically make all the bad impulses go away. The culture had deep problems with bigotry, sexism and religious fanaticism before the Arab Spring, it would be irrational to expect that to change overnight.

Hopefully if the end result is a culture that is tolerant of dissent, where people are allowed to speak up against bigotry, sexism, and religious fanaticism then those problems can be addressed at a later time.
 
Hopefully if the end result is a culture that is tolerant of dissent, where people are allowed to speak up against bigotry, sexism, and religious fanaticism then those problems can be addressed at a later time.
Or maybe not, what with Islamists writing the constitution. As we have seen in Pakistan, once an "Islamic" law is in place even speaking of changing it can get you killed. And the same Pakistani lawyers who stood up to Mushareff laid rose petals at the feet of the man who killed the Punjab governor for suggesting watering down the blasphemy law.
 
Or maybe not, what with Islamists writing the constitution. As we have seen in Pakistan, once an "Islamic" law is in place even speaking of changing it can get you killed. And the same Pakistani lawyers who stood up to Mushareff laid rose petals at the feet of the man who killed the Punjab governor for suggesting watering down the blasphemy law.

Well, the governor did kinda bring it on himself when he decided to disrespect the cherished values of the Pakistanian people. An example needed to be made.

You need to purge yourself of this viral Islamophobia.
 
Last edited:
Well, this thread got derailed rather quickly.

Still, at least I learned that Germany starting the Shoah in their own country can be completely ignored when talking about the worsening of anti-Semitism in Europe because the Germans counted as "outside forces" when they exported their genocide to Poland, that the increase in anti-Semitism during the 30's and 40's both never happened and was done to scapegoat the Jews for the Great Depression, that when I said the reason for the "current" (as in, right now, during the events of the "Arab Spring") anti-Semitism in the Muslim world is because hatred against Jews is stirred up as a way to stoke hatred of the state of Israel I really meant that I was blaming the aforementioned increase-in-anti-Semitism-during-WWII-that-nevertheless-didn't-happen on "Jewish migration to Palestine", that one can't express one's hopes that certain popular revolutions might eventually allow for a culture of dissent (where things like anti-Semitism can be successfully addressed) because Pakistan has a blasphemy law (just the one, apparently) which was written into their constitution by Islamists, and that that isn't a confusing non-sequitur at all because some posters have some kind of persecution complex about being called Islamophobes on an internet message board.

So, really, I feel quite enlightened.
 
Last edited:
Well, this thread got derailed rather quickly.

Still, at least I learned that Germany starting the Shoah in their own country can be completely ignored when talking about the worsening of anti-Semitism in Europe because the Germans counted as "outside forces" when they exported their genocide to Poland, that the increase in anti-Semitism during the 30's and 40's both never happened and was done to scapegoat the Jews for the Great Depression, that when I said the reason for the "current" (as in, right now, during the events of the "Arab Spring") anti-Semitism in the Muslim world is because hatred against Jews is stirred up as a way to stoke hatred of the state of Israel I really meant that I was blaming the aforementioned increase-in-anti-Semitism-during-WWII-that-nevertheless-didn't-happen on "Jewish migration to Palestine", that one can't express one's hopes that certain popular revolutions might eventually allow for a culture of dissent (where things like anti-Semitism can be successfully addressed) because Pakistan has a blasphemy law (just the one, apparently) which was written into their constitution by Islamists, and that that isn't a confusing non-sequitur at all because some posters have some kind of persecution complex about being called Islamophobes on an internet message board.

So, really, I feel quite enlightened.
Anti-semitism was always there, but it certainly spikes from time to time. Particularly in tough economic times, such as the worldwide depressions in the 1930s, 1870s, and 1890s.

You claim it was a response to Jews migrating to Palestine, but really why should they care if they weren't already raging anti-semites? "They hate the Jews because they're immigrating to Palestine" seems like a pretty feeble reason, and IMHO it's only explainable by already deep-rooted amti-semitism. It's like claiming Archie Bunker wasn't a racist until the Jeffersons moved next door.
 
Last edited:
Well, this thread got derailed rather quickly.

Still, at least I learned that Germany starting the Shoah in their own country can be completely ignored when talking about the worsening of anti-Semitism in Europe because the Germans counted as "outside forces" when they exported their genocide to Poland, that the increase in anti-Semitism during the 30's and 40's both never happened and was done to scapegoat the Jews for the Great Depression, that when I said the reason for the "current" (as in, right now, during the events of the "Arab Spring") anti-Semitism in the Muslim world is because hatred against Jews is stirred up as a way to stoke hatred of the state of Israel I really meant that I was blaming the aforementioned increase-in-anti-Semitism-during-WWII-that-nevertheless-didn't-happen on "Jewish migration to Palestine", that one can't express one's hopes that certain popular revolutions might eventually allow for a culture of dissent (where things like anti-Semitism can be successfully addressed) because Pakistan has a blasphemy law (just the one, apparently) which was written into their constitution by Islamists, and that that isn't a confusing non-sequitur at all because some posters have some kind of persecution complex about being called Islamophobes on an internet message board.

So, really, I feel quite enlightened.


Punctuation.
 
Do you have evidence that anti-semitism in the region was less prior to the ceation of Israel? I'm just not seeing it. There's a reason Jews were scattered all over the world. Israel is just the raison du jour.


Jews were scattered by the Romans, not Arabs. In fact prior to the conflict in Palestine, Arabs mostly got on relatively well with Jews. Most of pre-Israel Jewish persecution was at the hands of western Christians.

The reason for this is thought to be largely because there is no theological conflict between Judaism and Islam like there is between Judaism and Christianity.
 
So what do you blame the "far worse" anti-semitism of the 1930s on?

Bernard Lewis blames it on the spreading "poison" (as he terms it) of Christian European anti-Semitism during the colonial period of the 19th century, given a strong (and intentional) boost by Nazi Germany.
 
Last edited:
I'm still not buying it.


Egyptian cities hilited.

That's a long time before Israel was created.

My argument is not that there was no anti-Semitism in Arab and Muslim countries but I would argue that it got much worse during the time of Jewish migration to Palestine and infinitely worse after the establishment of Israel.

Your counter-argument seems to be that anti-Semitism was always there and always at the same level only that it was once latent and then became manifest.

This is reminiscient of the curious, unfalsifiable, metaphysical theories that Daniel Jonah Goldhagen sketched out in his Hitler's Willing Executioners.

Of course if you could show me some units by which latent anti-semitism can be measured I'd appreciate it.

I think it is more likely that people, generally, are easily led and can be whipped up into hysteria over this or that very easily. The Damascus Affair that you cite is a resurrection of the medeival blood libel that began in England with William of Norfolk and Little St. Hugh. These were made Christian martyrs because they died at the hands of evil Jews making Passover bread, according to official Church Lore. This kind of thing was preached from the pulpits across Europe. Do you think that these Europeans were inherently diseased with anti-Semitism or do you think they were propagandized/brainwashed into it?

The same applies in Arab/Muslim world where Jewish migration to Palestine (AKA fleeing extreme European anti-semitic persecution) was considered a threat to one of the Holiest sites of Islam, al-Quds/Jerusalem which led to an massive increase in anti-Semitism with such things as the Arab revolt under people like Qassam (although they may have also had some genuine i.e. secular grievances too given that some of their land was certainly dispossessed). For the most part, Jewish communities in the Arab world were still relatively (and please understand that there are meaningful distinctions here) unmolested. This changed with the mass expulsions of Jews from Baghdad, Cairo, Tripoli etc...
 
There's a range of reasons for the early 20th Century upsurge in antisemitism amongst Arab Muslims.

1) The breakdown of the Muslim civilisation
2) Western influence on the Muslim world
3) Increasing Arab Nationalism
4) Nazi ideology (this is a specific example of point 2)
5) Increasing politicisation and unification of disparate Jewish communities
6) Establishment and early successes of Israel (a specific aspect of point 5)
7) Islamic resurgence since the 1980s in response to increasing westernisation
 
Of course, this is where people such as Maimonides (the Rambam) had managed to rise to physician to the grand vizier of the Sultan, Saladin so there had been promising days. Of course, if you look at things from 21st Century Indenity-politics infused Western eyes you might be shocked to learn that women didn't have the vote in these backward primitive places in those days! If, on the other hand, you are remotely sensible and historically-minded you would know that comparitively-speaking Jewish communities did fairly well in some parts.

Bringing up Maimonides is actually a good historical example, because it paints a picture which is not black and white. Moses ben Mimon (his actual name) was from Cordoba. His family was forced to leave because the Cordoba was taken over by the Almohads dynasty, and they told the Jewish community that they must convert to Islam, or else they will be killed. This is of course quite similar to the experience of Jews in various Christian nations at the time.

Ben Maimon left and tried to settle in various places until he found his home in Cairo, where he was the head of the Jewish community. He would indeed become a famous physician there and would be the personal doctor of the sultan. All in all, life for Jews was not to bad in Cairo at the time. This too is similar to life of Jews in Christian countries, for instance in Provence at somewhat earlier period.

Even when Ben Maimon was settled in Egypt, he was aware that Jews in other Islamic countries were still persecuted. One of his famous writing is a public letter to the Jews of Yemen who were in a difficult state at the time.

My point is that there is a tendency to oversimplify the treatment of Jews in the middle ages. In the oversimplified picture Jews were always persecuted in Christian countries and had been accepted as (second class) citizens in the Islamic world. In reality, under both religions there were always more and less tolerant leaders. Jews could live well for a while in a more tolerant place, until eventually they would be forced to leave. This is the reason that the centers of Jewish theology and though moved from one place to another every century or two.
 
Historically Jews and Islamic Arabs have lived in harmony. Their issue today is Zionism, meaning Israel and the United States.
 
My argument is not that there was no anti-Semitism in Arab and Muslim countries but I would argue that it got much worse during the time of Jewish migration to Palestine and infinitely worse after the establishment of Israel.

Your counter-argument seems to be that anti-Semitism was always there and always at the same level only that it was once latent and then became manifest.
Neither of these statements can be termed "arguments". Your position is simply an observation easily verified by counting incidents of antisemitism in Arab regions. But it doesn't actually tell us anything about Arab antisemitism. It doesn't even indicate causation because correlation doesn't mean causation.

Was Jewish migration the cause of increased antisemitism in Arab regions? Was it a result of increased antisemitism? Or were they parallel and interdependent phenomena?

I don't know what I'm supposed to conclude from your observation. Wildcat at least proposes a cause-and-effect that can be examined (i.e., that antisemitism was a constant and the only difference would be what countervailing influences tended to inhibit antisemitic acts). Your observation doesn't offer much of anything.

Now, in the end, I find Wildcat's thesis (as I've restated it) lacking as well because the difference between an countervailing influence and a reduction in underlying antisemitism is vague at best. If the Sultan in Cairo is more tolerant of Jews because he wants Jewish investment in Cairo and sees an opportunity caused by the Jews being expelled from Spain, if that a countervailing influence or a reduction in antisemitism? Is the Sultan still an antisemite who forbears in order to get Jewish money, or is he a more enlightened ruler enjoying the fruits of tolerance for his people?

The history of the Jewish diaspora is a history of cycles. One group persecutes Jews so the Jewish population there dwindles (but might not be extinguished). This creates an opportunity elsewhere for another ruler who plays host to the Jewish exiles. Eventually, that region becomes rules by someone who persecutes the Jews and they move again.

The fact that Cairo has an unbroken Jewish community for 2000 years doesn't say much, except perhaps, that none of the various persecutions of Jews over the millennia manage to totally wipe the community out.

I don't think it's right to compare Muslim and Christian treatment of Jews and declare that one group treated Jews better than the other. First, the term Muslim and Christian is much too broad. Second, the populations were very different and constantly changing. The Jews were different too. The Jews of the third century would be almost unrecognizable to the Jews of the 19th century. Moreover, the way Jewish persecution manifested changed over the centuries. Sometimes, it would be forced conversions (Muslims tended to do this more often than Christians). Sometimes, they would be taxed oppressively. Sometimes, they would be herded into ghettos. Sometimes, they would be expelled. Sometimes, their property would be taken. Sometimes, the government would simply look the other was as people beat or murdered them. Sometimes, they would be tortured.

The stated reasons for tolerance and persecution would vary as well. Martin Luther is a prime example. Luther was initially tolerant of the Jews. He believed that the reason the Jews did not convert to Christianity was because the Catholic persecution of them prevented them from hearing the loving message of the Gospel. But after a few years of tolerance and the puzzling refusal of Jews to convert en mass to Protetantism, he decided the Jews were irredeemable and became a virulent antisemite.

In Egypt, the persecution would take on a different character. Because Muslims could not loan money to one another, Jews were a necessary "evil" (and tolerated as "Brethren of the Book"), because they could finance businesses and generally increased commerce. But when the economy was good, or the rulers feared a burgeoning middle class would disrupt their power, Muslim leaders would suddenly identify the Jews as heretics and "foreigners" who needed to be dealt with before the fomented revolution. A lot of Muslim antisemitism before the 19th century appears to have been largely economic and cultural, rather than religious.

Which brings us to the 1930's. Both Christians and Muslims have a complex history with antisemitism. But most importantly, since the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the Arab nations were being colonized by Englishmen and Frenchman. And they were going to war against Germany. And Germany hated Jews. So it was natural for Arabs to ally with Germany and to forge a common bond by accentuating their own antisemitic tendencies. Which doesn't forgive their antisemitism. It merely explains it.

And when Germany lost, the Arabs, found themselves still oppressed by Englishmen and Frenchmen who were now expiating the guilt of their own antisemitism by founding an Israeli nation to be populated by European (jews).

It has been said that the Israelis see the Arabs through the lens of European antisemitism -- the new Nazis. And the Arabs see Israelis through the lens of European colonialism -- the new Colonial power. So even some Jews had been living in what would be Israel since forever, the new arrivals from Europe felt like a new colonialism. And even though Arabs had been antisemitic to varying degrees since forever, the opposition to Israel felt like the new Nazism.

And both of them are partly wrong and both of them are partly right in their observations.

And here we are. And what are we to do with this? Arab antisemitism is undeniable. Israel (and any remnant Jewish communities in Arab areas) continues to be the target both of Arab antisemitic sentiment and Arab anticolonial sentiment. And Israel's Arab neighbors continue to be viewed as the new Nazis as well as simply hostile neighbors.

Do you think that these Europeans were inherently diseased with anti-Semitism or do you think they were propagandized/brainwashed into it?
it's a silly question. Nobody is inherently antisemitic and nobody is inherently tolerant. Cultures are the products of centuries of development.

Jewish migration to Palestine (AKA fleeing extreme European anti-semitic persecution) was considered a threat to one of the Holiest sites of Islam, al-Quds/Jerusalem which led to an massive increase in anti-Semitism with such things as the Arab revolt under people like Qassam (although they may have also had some genuine i.e. secular grievances too given that some of their land was certainly dispossessed). For the most part, Jewish communities in the Arab world were still relatively (and please understand that there are meaningful distinctions here) unmolested. This changed with the mass expulsions of Jews from Baghdad, Cairo, Tripoli etc...
I question whether these communities were "relatively unmolested" from an historical perspective. Certainly, compared to the mass expulsion, they were less molested. But that's like saying that Europe's Jews were "relatively unmolested" and comparing it only to the Shoah. It's an unhelpful statement that whitewashes centuries of antisemitism in Europe and the Arab world.

For instance, let's look at the "threat to Al-Quds". Was there any bona fide reason that Muslims might have feared that Jews would do something to the Al Aqsa Mosque? England had governed Jerusalem for a quarter-century and hadn't done anything to endanger Muslim holy sites. Were Zionists in the 1940's threatening to rebuild the Temple? I doubt it, as the Zionist movement wasn't all that fundamentalist. I've never seen any evidence of Zionist desire to threaten Al Aqsa. This leads me to believe that the "threat to Al-Quds" was a justification to opposition to Israel, not a cause of it. The cause, as far as I can see is that the movement to create Israel represented both colonialism and Judaism, and Arabs hated both of those things in varying degrees.
 
For instance, let's look at the "threat to Al-Quds". Was there any bona fide reason that Muslims might have feared that Jews would do something to the Al Aqsa Mosque? England had governed Jerusalem for a quarter-century and hadn't done anything to endanger Muslim holy sites. Were Zionists in the 1940's threatening to rebuild the Temple? I doubt it, as the Zionist movement wasn't all that fundamentalist. I've never seen any evidence of Zionist desire to threaten Al Aqsa. This leads me to believe that the "threat to Al-Quds" was a justification to opposition to Israel, not a cause of it. The cause, as far as I can see is that the movement to create Israel represented both colonialism and Judaism, and Arabs hated both of those things in varying degrees.

I don't know if they had any bone fide reasons for believing the Jews would tear down the al-Aqsa Mosque and replace it with Solomon's Temple and yet that is exactly what was believed by a number of people around Haj Amin al-Hussayni. It could well be that this was merely a rumour that was stoked up to get people angry and yet that would support what I have said.

But anyway, in 1929, an incident near the Wailing Wall sparked off a riot in Jerusalem which led to the worst outbreak of violence between the Jews and the Arabs. The British responded with the Peel Commission in which al-Hussayni testified that the Jews were there to tear down the al-Aqsa Mosque.

You could, of course, still argue that this was a justification that wasn't believed by the Mufti but it must have been believed by someone otherwise he wouldn't have got much currency from it.

But, yes, there were a combination of factors, no doubt.
 
Hmmm...It seems I may have got some of my timeline confused there as it turns out the Peel Commission occured a number of years after the Jerusalem riots and followed a different set of riots. In fact, a full-scale revolt.

I question whether these communities were "relatively unmolested" from an historical perspective. Certainly, compared to the mass expulsion, they were less molested. But that's like saying that Europe's Jews were "relatively unmolested" and comparing it only to the Shoah. It's an unhelpful statement that whitewashes centuries of antisemitism in Europe and the Arab world.

Well, obviously it is not my intention to minimize or whitewash centuries of anti-semitism but I did say that there are "meaningful distinctions" to be made between various forms of persecution.
 
I don't know if they had any bone fide reasons for believing the Jews would tear down the al-Aqsa Mosque and replace it with Solomon's Temple and yet that is exactly what was believed
But that could be said about any justification for antisemitism (or, really, any justification for intolerance of any stripe). People really believed the blood libel. People really believed the Jews killed Christ. People really believed the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

But anyway, in 1929, an incident near the Wailing Wall sparked off a riot in Jerusalem which led to the worst outbreak of violence between the Jews and the Arabs.... al-Hussayni testified that the Jews were there to tear down the al-Aqsa Mosque.

You could, of course, still argue that this was a justification that wasn't believed by the Mufti but it must have been believed by someone otherwise he wouldn't have got much currency from it.
But so what? There was no factual basis for the accusation, whether the Mufti believed it or not. The event was triggered because Muslims protested the erection of a temporary screen used during High Holiday worship by observant Jews. Screens such as those has been erected before, but now it was 1929, and due to increased Jewish immigration, the High Holiday crowds were bigger than ever.

The protest about the screen was a ruse by Muslims designed to make Jerusalem hostile to Jews so as to discourage immigration to the region. That's because much of the immigration in 1929 was a reaction to increased antisemitism in Europe. So if the Mandate was perceived as being as inhospitable to Jews as Europe was, the Jews would go elsewhere. Just another way that the circumstances of the day encouraged antisemites to be more expressive in their antisemitism. Did it "cause"antisemitism, or simply take off any restraints from antisemitism that already existed? No way to tell.

But the Mufti's accusations had absolutely no basis in fact. Did he believe it? Maybe he was simply repeating rumors and slanders he heard from others. So what? His propensity to believe the worst is evidence of his antisemitism, not an excuse for it. And his actions in fanning the flames of anitsemitism speaks for itself.

So what does it matter if the Mufti really believed that Jews were planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque if he had no cause to believe such a thing?
 
But that could be said about any justification for antisemitism (or, really, any justification for intolerance of any stripe). People really believed the blood libel. People really believed the Jews killed Christ. People really believed the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.


But so what? There was no factual basis for the accusation, whether the Mufti believed it or not. The event was triggered because Muslims protested the erection of a temporary screen used during High Holiday worship by observant Jews. Screens such as those has been erected before, but now it was 1929, and due to increased Jewish immigration, the High Holiday crowds were bigger than ever.

The protest about the screen was a ruse by Muslims designed to make Jerusalem hostile to Jews so as to discourage immigration to the region. That's because much of the immigration in 1929 was a reaction to increased antisemitism in Europe. So if the Mandate was perceived as being as inhospitable to Jews as Europe was, the Jews would go elsewhere. Just another way that the circumstances of the day encouraged antisemites to be more expressive in their antisemitism. Did it "cause"antisemitism, or simply take off any restraints from antisemitism that already existed? No way to tell.

But the Mufti's accusations had absolutely no basis in fact. Did he believe it? Maybe he was simply repeating rumors and slanders he heard from others. So what? His propensity to believe the worst is evidence of his antisemitism, not an excuse for it. And his actions in fanning the flames of anitsemitism speaks for itself.

So what does it matter if the Mufti really believed that Jews were planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque if he had no cause to believe such a thing?

Well, yes, fair enough although I would again think that there is some distinction between the blood libel, the Protocols of Zion, Christ-killing - those old-time Christian anti-semitic memes - and concerns by the native population about what a Jerusalem in which they are in the minority would look like.

That is to say I don't think that everyone worrying about the fate of the al-Aqsa Mosque would necessarily be anti-Semitic even if it is certainly true of the Mufti.
 

Back
Top Bottom